Load data for the 357 & 44 AMP
Printed From: AMT Guns information
Category: Auto Mag Pistol
Forum Name: Pet loads
Forum Description: Shooters loads and results.
URL: http://www.amtguns.info/forum_posts.asp?TID=733
Printed Date: 26 Mar 2026 at 9:33pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Load data for the 357 & 44 AMP
Posted By: Ian
Subject: Load data for the 357 & 44 AMP
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2011 at 11:17am
|
This is the load data from the old Lee Jurras web site, thanks to Gerry for emailing it to me so we can put it up.
Ian uploads/4/357LoadData.pdf - 357LoadData.pdf uploads/4/44LoadData.pdf - 44LoadData.pdf ------------- http://www.amtguns.net" rel="nofollow - Ian's AMT Information Page http://www.glossover.co.uk" rel="nofollow - A little more about me - My corner of the internet |
Replies:
Posted By: 7mmMKsuper
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2011 at 10:56pm
|
Very Cool, Thanks Gerry and Ian!  And thank you to Lee Jurras also. MK |
Posted By: tgt40
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2011 at 12:14pm
| Yes thanks very much! Very interesting reading!! |
Posted By: schwammy
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2011 at 3:07am
| Just put together a batch this weekend for .357 AMP using cut rifle brass. I used H-110 (which is extremely similar to 296) with Hornady 158 gr HP/XTP. All brass was trimmed to 1.298" +/- .0005" and COAL was 1.6" +/- .0005". I didn't bring the chronometer, but there were no jams, 1" group at 25 yards, 2.5" group at 50 yards off a simple bench rest at an outdoor range with mild-moderate wind. Just for the heck of it I tried plinking a 4" x 8" piece of steel someone left at 100 yards. I guessed at the drop, but overestimated and my spotter saw it sail over it. The second shot tore right through 3/16" steel and hit the backstop with plenty of energy. What an amazing pistol!!! Next weekend I will bring the chronometer and a batch of 44 AMP I just finished putting together. |
Posted By: schwammy
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2011 at 1:55am
|
Well, I forgot the chronometer today, but tried out a bunch of 44 rounds at different loads. The best group was 15 rounds for just under 1" at 25 yards (off a rest). The recipe I used was cut rifle brass, Federal LP primers, 22gr of H110 with Hornady 240gr HP/XTP at 1.6".
On a fun note, the people at the bench next to me were kind enough to miss a gallon jug of water they set at 100 yards until they ran out of ammo. With their permission, on the second shot it looked like Old Faithful! |
Posted By: Gerry
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 1:28am
|
The 357 AMP when working right is a blast to shoot. Glad enjoyed the data. 357 AMP data is a little scarce these days.
Enjoy!
Gerry
|
Posted By: schwammy
Date Posted: 01 May 2011 at 10:14pm
|
Finally remembered the chronometer! 20 shot strings of 158 gr .357 and 240 gr .44 with the recipes listed above. I had to move the chronometer out to 5 yards because at 5' the muzzle blast took off the face plate!
.357 - Hi-1344; Lo-1280; Avg-1307; Spread-64; SD-20 .44 - Hi-1877; Lo-1826; Avg-1854; Spread-51; SD-20 I've also learned that shape of 125gr Hornady HP/XTP is a bit different than the 158gr. While they 'appeared' to allow the bolt to fully close, the range told a different story. On closer inspection the point of the 125 does not narrow as quickly as the 158 so 1.6" will not work. I guess I'll be making up some dummy rounds and using my feeler gauge on the bolt to determine the right seating depth. |
Posted By: schwammy
Date Posted: 05 May 2011 at 10:10pm
Well, shame on me. Going through a couple of dummy rounds with 125gr bullets showed me who the dummy is. When I formed the cases for these I used a different shell holder than the one that came with the set, which is (now) obviously a different height, putting the shoulder in the wrong place. The moral of the story is to use the same shell holders after setting the die. 
|
Posted By: curmudgeon
Date Posted: 06 May 2011 at 10:28am
| Schwammy, what you found is known to anyone who loads cartridges which HS on the shoulder at a point which is known as the Datum line. You will find that in various 357 AM bbls, that the bottom of the load die needs to be ground, (surface grinder) to allow the shoulder to be set back far enough to allow proper HS. This is the fault of the gunmaker not the die maker, The die maker follows the specs better than the welded in bbl specs, Thats one reason why all bbls should be threaded, not jig held for welding. |
Posted By: schwammy
Date Posted: 07 May 2011 at 2:23am
|
Thanks for the info! I though I was losing my mind or my ability to set a die. The dummy I made up to check chambered perfectly with the bullet seated to 1.6". I pulled a couple down and when I ran them through I could feel it form further down the case. So I tore the rest down and re-ran all the cases through the sizer and put the rounds back together. Finally I spent time measuring the height of the shell holders and they came up the same, so my initial thought was wrong.
Finally my mystery was solved after reading your post and looking carefully at how the cartridge sat in the holder. One did not let the cartridge sit far enough back for it to form properly on both cut rifle cases and Starline. I was further confounded because it was the RCBS shell holder and the Lee shell holder was the one forming correctly. After examining it some more I saw and picked a bit of grit out of the RCBS shell holder. Turns out when I got the die set (used) I cleaned the dies but only wiped down shell holder that came with it. Why I used that one instead of one of the ones I regularly scrub, and why I didn't scrub the shell holder along with the dies I'll never know. (I'm a bit OCD so my reloading workspace is spotless, like everything else, and I would never think to look for grit.) I just know I won't do that again! |
Posted By: schwammy
Date Posted: 15 May 2011 at 11:59pm
Armed with clean reloading equipment I was able to work up some minimums for .357 to have it feed/cycle without jamming. For 125gr it took 26gr of H110 and for 180gr it took 20. The 180gr @ 20 averaged just over 1500fps with a nice tight group and moderate recoil. I'm not sure I really want to continue with the 125gr; those had a bunch of kick and muzzle blast by the time they would cycle. Inspired by Dirty Harry, and a love for doing a lot of math (yes I am a nerd), I worked up some 300gr loads for the .44 with the intent of hitting different speeds. 50 rounds of each with very tight groups were achieved with Starline brass @ 1.298" using Fed LPP, H-110, OAL of 1.6" proving I still know how to count  (Remember Starline has a slightly higher case volume than cut rifle so you may need to adjust down.)
1000fps - 17.2gr 1050fps - 17.7gr 1100fps - 18.2gr |
Posted By: schwammy
Date Posted: 31 May 2011 at 7:24pm
|
.357 AMP, 180gr Hornady HP/XTP, 1.298" case (Starline), Fed LPP (150), H110, OAL 1.6"
1650fps - 20.8gr 1700fps - 21.6gr Lower and it would not cycle reliably and the 1700fps load had plenty of kick so I wasn't going any higher. (Besides, 1155 ft/lbs of energy is enough for me.) |
Posted By: Rocketthon
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2013 at 12:55am
|
Interesting to note that my pet loads were thought by me to be a bit strong in order to cycle the action but according to this data not as strong as I thought. The 44 with a 180 XTP and 29 grains of 296 seems positively tame compared to the higher loads and the 357 140 Lever-evolution with 22 grains of 296 not so strong either. Yes I did say Lever-Evolution, seems to be just about designed for the gun since terminal performance is designed for a 357 in a rifle and that is just about what an Automag in 357 does, feeds well also. I actually have the old Speer manual that lists both rounds and it shows the top performer with a 140 gr 357 to be Blue Dot, the new stuff is much hotter than the older formula so be careful. |
Posted By: Auto Mag
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2013 at 3:49am
|
WOW, what caused you to dig this thread up?
Its was like seeing a ghost,,,
How long has Ian been gone, 6+ months???
gh ------------- Who was that masked man,,, |
Posted By: usrguns
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2013 at 2:03pm
|
Yes it's been 7 months now. Was such a loss and for no reason. Do miss him on the site!!!! ------------- If you can't have fun doing it, then don't do it. |
Posted By: tgt40
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2013 at 1:29am
|
Agreed, but it is nice to continue to learn from him! So using rifle brass is no problem for the .357 as it is with the .41? I have to admit I wanted a .41 until I started reading about it.
|
Posted By: jurras
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2013 at 1:57am
| tgt40, rifle brass is a POOR substitute for either 357 or 44 cartridge now that you can get cases from Norma and Starline. Most CDM is long gone. What was the problem with the 41 that changed your mind. And who was it that said that Blue Dot has changed ????? Blue Dot is a good cold weather load. I worked with the Hercules lab on Blue Dot load data for the 44 AMP.AGAIN, The powder companies do NOT randomly change burning rates w/o MAJOR public announcements. |
Posted By: Auto Mag
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2013 at 2:56am
|
Re: "Most CDM is long gone" true, sadly,,,
I say sadly as I have gotten my best service from CDM brass.
I cannot offer a scientific reason for it, but for me CDM has held up much better than Norma or any 308 commercial brass.
The Norma brass is super soft and easy to work with, but that was also its downfall for me. It stretched, bulged, and split way more than CDM. Maybe its too "pure" as I am guessing CDM may be of a lower grade, but it has worked for me.
Havent shot Starline enough to know how it stands up against CDM or Norma.
GH ------------- Who was that masked man,,, |
Posted By: Rocketthon
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2013 at 3:33am
| My pet load for the 44mag in my M29 was always a 235-240 grain hard cast bullet with 17 grains of Blue Dot (with or without a gas check). I finally ran out of the older lot and picked up some new (always buy 8 pound kegs) and when the old powder was loaded up the cases would just drop out of the gun, even pretty dirty from a couple hundred rounds. The new stuff sticks even in a clean gun and I had to drop it to 15 grains to get it to shoot with the same extraction. Shame I did not have the old load chrono'ed so I could compare muzzle performance. Since the powder was the only thing that had changed (same lot of CCI primers and same brass as before, even tried this with 220 grain hard cast stuff and same result). With this evidence you be the judge. I understand and had the same thoughts as you about powder specs but evidence is otherwise with the lot I last got. Having run about 10,000 of these through the gun it is hard to believe there is something else that is causing this. It also seems a bit more in the 45ACP and my son reports the new powder to be pretty hot on his 357 Sig. Oh, and if I run the harder shooting loads in 296 with the heavier bullets it does still behave the same as before (21.5 grains 296 under a Hornady 265 gr). I don't make claims without something to back up my thoughts. |
Posted By: Rocketthon
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2013 at 3:35am
| I recently picked up some Quality Cartridge stuff in 357 from Midway, still have not had the chance to load it up, looks good though. |
Posted By: Rocketthon
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2013 at 3:38am
| Not realizing his demise I posted something to the list and I am a relatively new member. Sad these folks are passing. |
Posted By: tgt40
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2013 at 3:19pm
Thank you - I was wondering about that. I've got some nice Starline stuff and once the IPSC season winds down a bit I'm going to make the clean stuff dirty! The .41 isn't out of the picture but I'm a bit less interested than I once was - what I am cranked up about a bit now is the .357. Can't wait to get into it a bit more! Thanks again for the information, its ALWAYS appreciated.
|
jurras wrote:Posted By: Auto Mag
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2013 at 2:59am
|
I can only speak for myself, but I also had high hopes for the 41JMP and the lack of bullets was a drawback for me, but that was like 20 years ago,,, Truth be told it just was not as exceptional as the 357 AMP was and after having spent a bunch of time with the 357 AMP I was spoiled.
Once you get your dies set up for your Bbl/gun and you dial in some good ammo specs, you will leave the range with a big grin every time after shooting the 357 AMP.
Give it a try and risk the addiction!!!
gh ------------- Who was that masked man,,, |
Posted By: AutoMagyar
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2013 at 4:07am
I have the .357 AMP dies, a bit of used brass, and some new .44 AMP Starline brass. I just can't wait for my new barrel for the plan to come together. Bring on the addiction! No cure, no recovery desired.  ------------- "Are you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" |
Posted By: Auto Mag
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2013 at 4:31am
|
Did you recently buy a Bbl, or are you waiting on Brian's next batch?
Either way, it will be worth the wait.
Sorry I dont recall what screen name Skinner uses here, but he was another one of us that thought the 44 AMP was fun but wanted to try the 357 AMP and had a few struggles along the way but in the end he too was a believer like so many here who have given it a try.
gh ------------- Who was that masked man,,, |
Posted By: AutoMagyar
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2013 at 5:45am
I'm on the wait list. Been on it since early last summer. I know, with the .357 version I have ordered, it WILL be worth the wait. It's funny, because the first AMP I ever saw in person at a gun store (back in the early eighties) was a 6 1/2" VR .357 AMP. I asked the guy if I could handle it, and I couldn't believe it when he handed it over to me (I thought he might be over-protective of it). I should have tried to buy it back then, instead of just ogling it and dreaming, but hindsight's 20/20. Anyway, this new bbl will make up for it. Right Brian? ------------- "Are you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?" |
Posted By: jbarnett
Date Posted: 21 May 2021 at 6:51am
|
Has anyone used Vihta Vuori powders to reload for .44AMP or .357AMP? J ------------- ============= Josh Barnett Twitter/IG @JoshLBarnett https://www.joshbarnett.com/ ============= |
Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 22 May 2021 at 12:23pm
|
Hi Josh, I used vihtavuori powder for years in my 44AMP pistol. 12 grains of 3N37 under a Fiocchi 240 SJSP gave 1280 fps from my gun. Not the flamethrower loads, but a very reliable and good working load. If you want something similar to the Hodgdon H110, you could use vihtavuori N110.  |
Posted By: John Nada
Date Posted: 29 May 2021 at 1:36am
|
I'm very curious to see any data for reloading 44 amp with Vihta n110... |
Posted By: pbcaster45
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2023 at 1:50am
|
I was curious about using Barnes Bullets in my 44 AMP. I was only able to find some Barnes 225 gr. XPBs and of course there was no load data to be found! One thing I didn't consider was the length of copper bullets compared to more conventional jacketed bullets. As you can see in the picture the Barnes bullet takes up a lot of powder space - I didn't think it was going to work. When I compared it to the Hornady 300 grain XTP it was very similar in length, nose to crimp, and shank length. I decided to give it a try and surprisingly - it worked! Still more work to do, hopefully the final load will have enough velocity to make it suitable for hunting hogs or whitetail. For Science! Bullet: Barnes 225 gr. XPB Left to right. 44 AMP round with Barnes 225 gr. XPB, Barnes 225 gr. XPB, Hornady 240 gr. XTP-HP, Sierra 240 gr. JHC, 44 AMP round with Hornady 240 gr. XTP-HP
|
Posted By: pbcaster45
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2023 at 2:00am
|
Chronograph results for the previous load (I did change to the Winchester Large Pistol Primer) Bullet: Barnes 225 gr. XPB (all copper hollow point) Powder: Hodgdon H-110 20.0 grs. Primer: Winchester Large Pistol Case: Starline OAL: 1.615 Average Velocity: 1357 fps ES: 64 SD: 23 I think I might test Ramshot Enforcer with this bullet. |
Posted By: Pantera Mike
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2023 at 3:50am
Enforcer apparently has a faster burn rate, similar to Alliant 2400. It would probably be more tolerant of lower charge weights than WW296/H110 is. The knock against WW296/H110 is that they are notably unsafe at reduced load weights. The manufacturer goes out of their way to admonish against such experimentation. Supposedly pressure spikes can result, with concomitant firearms damage a possible result. Your load above seems well into this undercharge territory, save for the fact that your longer bullet apparently compresses the load, which can raise pressures, perhaps to a safe level. Thus, if you are seeking lightweight loads you would be better off with 2400. Enforcer seems to be a good match for 2400 although I wouldn’t assume that one could simply substitute equivalent powder charges between the two powders. You are definitely going into pioneer mode when developing loads using components that only recently came into existence. One has to pose the question, ‘why?’ Why risk damage to yourself or the gun when there are plenty of established recipes to follow? I do understand the urge to try a bullet between the normally found 200 and 240 grain weights, and one could possibly extrapolate powder charges from known good data when using a bullet of an intermediate weight. But I would control my variables and only chase a single unknown. I would either try Enforcer with a known bullet weight, comparing chronograph results with test loads using a proven formula with one of the established powders, OR I would try an intermediate bullet weight with one of the established powders, extrapolating between the minimum loads for the weights above and below my test bullet. In the latter case, I would also create test loads with known bullet weights to compare my performance with the published data, since all data is produced using cut down rifle cases. You may be using Starline pistol brass which has been shown to deliver lower pressures for a given charge weight, and typically about a 100fps reduction versus the same weight in a cut-down rifle case. A chronograph is a key tool here. If the data says x grains gives y fps and your testing with different brass shows a similar reduction in velocity, you can slowly elevate your charge weight until you achieve the published velocity, and then tentatively apply that delta to loads of increased strength. All the while keeping an eye out for overpressure signs like flatted primers, or in more extreme cases, cocking pieces and bolts flying past your head!
|
Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2023 at 5:20pm
|
Just out of curiousity, I ran your data trough QuickLoad, looks like a safe "practise-target" load to me: Why the change of primers, are the federals to much flat? Ps, the charge should be compressed 112% full of the case capacity, and QL gives a velocity of 1352 fps, thats pretty close calculated... 
|
Posted By: pbcaster45
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2023 at 5:38pm
|
Thanks for the QuickLoad data! Ran out of Federal 155s! Sometimes you have to use what you have! P.S. The primers looked nice and rounded - normal pressure indications (for both primers). I think the Winchester Large Pistol is hotter than the Federal 155 but not as hot as the CCI-350.
|
Posted By: pbcaster45
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 3:27pm
|
A 25-yard group with my final hunting load at 25 yards. I wish I could brag about my amazing one-handed shooting ability, but this was off the bags and taking my time (probably 5 minutes!) I was getting intermittent feeding jams earlier in the month but a very light buffing of the frame part of the feed ramp completely eliminated those (so light a before and after photo would have looked the same). I still get maybe one stovepipe every 50 rounds but I'm pretty sure that's me being careless with my grip. Sending the barrel assembly off for the Mag-Na-Port process next week - hope that works as well as Kent Lomont suggested! My hunting load uses a very old lot of H-110 from the 90s (priced $11.75 a pound!) - haven't had a chance to check it with the chronograph yet but it's very accurate. It goes without saying... don't rest the barrel on the bags!
|
Posted By: pbcaster45
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2023 at 3:27pm
| Sorry guys, I love experimenting with new loads - but I've decided to dial it back until the situation with new gun production is resolved. It's a "Safe Queen" for now! What a mess! |
Posted By: pbcaster45
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2025 at 3:14pm
|
Nothing new here, I realized my posted load data is all over the place and I wanted to consolidate everything (like I did at the defunct factory forum). Sad to say my gun is now a "Safe Queen". Gun: Model 180-D 44 Auto Mag Bbl. Length: 8.5 inches Bullet: Sierra 180 gr. JHC Powder: Winchester 296 29.1 grs. Primer: Winchester Large Pistol Case: Starline OAL: 1.608 Average Velocity: 1700 fps ES: 24 SD: 9 Bullet: Sierra 180 gr. JHC Powder: Winchester 296 30.1 grs. Primer: Winchester Large Pistol Case: Starline OAL: 1.610 Average Velocity: 1766 fps ES: 27 SD: 9 Bullet: Hornady 200 gr. XTP-HP Powder: Winchester 296 26.0 grs. Primer: CCI-350 Case: Starline OAL: 1.600 Average Velocity: 1723 fps ES: 40 SD: 16 Bullet: Hornady 200 gr. XTP-HP Powder: Winchester 296 27.0 grs. Primer: Winchester Large Pistol Case: Starline OAL: 1.598 Average Velocity: 1659 fps ES: 29 SD: 11 Bullet: Barnes 225 gr. XPB (all copper hollow point) Powder: Hodgdon H-110 20.0 grs. Primer: Winchester Large Pistol Case: Starline OAL: 1.615 Average Velocity: 1357 fps ES: 64 SD: 23 Bullet: SBR 44 AMP 240 Grain Hornady XTP (Factory) Case: Starline OAL: 1.600 – 1.605 Average Velocity: 1503 fps ES: 24 SD: 8 Bullet: Hornady 240 gr. XTP-HP Powder: Winchester 296 23.5 grs. Primer: Winchester Large Pistol Case: Starline OAL: 1.596 Average Velocity: 1506 fps ES: 29 SD: 10 Comments: Factory Duplication Load Bullet: Matt’s Bullets Saeco #431 (.430 255 Gr. Flat Nose Gas Check) Powder: Hodgdon H-110 23.5 grs. Primer: Federal 155 Case: Starline OAL: 1.600 Average Velocity: 1466 fps ES: 52 SD: 16 |
Posted By: Pantera Mike
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2025 at 4:25pm
|
Great consolidation! Why do you consider your gun ti be a safe queen? Just because the factory is defunct? The factory for original guns hasn’t been around for decades yet people shootnthiseneven though they are ostensibly much less robust than the new guns?
|
Posted By: pbcaster45
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2025 at 8:20pm
|
I'm just a little worried about anything breaking and not being able to find replacement parts! I love shooting mine! But the temptation is building!
|
Posted By: Rocketthon
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2025 at 9:59pm
|
I have been in conservation mode on my gun for many years. The relevant idea of work up your charges till you get as close to 100% operation as you can with an Automag then you will be stressing it less than if you try and shoot hard and fast. As always use the rest of the care tips for these you get on here and you can run them for a good long time. Run them hard and fast not being real choosy on your lube and they go away pretty quick. As the gun loosens up and springs get a bit worn back it off, you will not notice that much difference. When the springs get loose enough Wolfe has the answer. I say shoot 'em and take care my friend. ------------- When you are up to your neck in alligators it is hard to remember your original intention was to drain the swamp |
Posted By: Pantera Mike
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2025 at 11:22pm
|
I’m just as concerned about parts availability for the original guns? Patrick bought up loads of spares and was supplying us through his store and now it’s all tied up in bankruptcy litigation, I guess? I still shoot mine though.
|
Posted By: AMT addict
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2025 at 2:04pm
| So I have a question that doesn't really fit under this topic but it goes with last few post. Are replacement parts protected under a copyright that prevents someone with the capabilities of producing some of the parts? If you can buy a wolf spring made for your auto mag, could a company produce pins, detent balls, screws and whatnot? If your gun stopped working, took it toa gunsmith and he said firing pin busted, can not find one but i can machine you one and couple of spares. Seems legal to me so why couldn't someone with the capabilities of turning out firing fins crank out a 100 and have them available for sale? |
Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2025 at 3:52am
|
Quick answer, and not to detract thread.... How many manufacturers make wheels for various automobiles? How many aftermarket auto part makers are out there? How many Ruger 10/22, or MKI/II/III parts are made by various manufacturers? I would wager that parts and pieces are not covered by trademarks or patents. Just don't put the manufacturers name on it, and don't market it as being an original. I am not an attorney and your mileage may vary..... ------------- If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands? |