"prototype" on GB

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Bulls Eye

International Auto Mag

Joined: 20 Jul 2019
Location: Barstow, Ca.
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Topic: "prototype" on GB
Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 7:52pm

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/996399630

BEEMER1

Callahan's Auto Mag

Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Location: iowa
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Posted: 05 Jul 2023 at 5:38pm

That particular pistol has been offered for sale by the same owner for probably 3 or 4 years. His initial asking price was $7500 or maybe more, I do not remember. I do not know any of the history behind it, but several of his statements are questionable.

There really were no "prototype" 357 pistols. The 44's were already in production and the 357's were just an auxilary barrel to swap with your 44 barrel.

Max Gera was gone from the company before they started making vent rib barrels like what is on that pistol. That was the design by Lovendale.

The frame is a post prototype model. Serial numbers are very important when you are manufacturing under the watchful eye of the ATF. Auto Mag Corp set up some guide lines for serial numbering frames and none were done this way.

The cocking piece is similar to the one on Gera's non-firing concept pistol but was never used on any other pistols I am aware of. The stippling on the cocking piece and the front and back straps looks like a two year old's work.

To me, the pistol looks like the work of an amateur gunsmith from reject parts pilfered from the scrap bin. Maybe someone else can shed some light on the pistol.

Dances with AutoMags View Drop Down

Callahan's Auto Mag

Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Location: Valley Glen
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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 2:30pm

Thanks for that post Bob. THIS is why I wrote the book, Auto Mag the Pasadena Days. There has been so much misinformation spun by sellers and trolls that I felt someone had to state the facts and the time-line. I sold the #2 gun and now you have it. It is seen in several ads and in the Power brochure. The first .357 barrel is seen in the Aristocrat brochure and it was with the #10 gun, you also have.

Cheers......Bruce

An armed society is a polite society.

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Callahan's Auto Mag

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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 2:42pm

There was a method Harry Sanford used when he was strapped for cash. Harry was known to sometimes take several finished, unstuffed Auto Mag frames and have his personalized serial number HWS-XXX put on them.

Ed O'Neil sold me one of these bare unstuffed frames. The frame was marked HWS-003. About a year later Ed had a set of six more HWS frames for sale and this time I could pick the number I wanted. I believe that this set of frames were numbered HWS 003 to HWS 008. Ed said Harry had previously sold several sets of his personally marked frames to raise quick cash. Ed later sold more of these frames to other collectors. This was about the time I lost all respect for serial numbers. I sold the frame to a collector and told him that it may not be the only HWS-003 frame out there. Except for the engraved gun, HWS-1-, I don't believe Harry ever had a "personal" gun. He had a whole factory full of them.

The stories that are spun about these HWS marked guns makes me kind of sad. An owner of one of Harry's personal guns does not want to hear that Harry made up several frames that had the same number. The numbers were probably marked a little differently to satisfy the BATF. Like HWS-3-, HWS-003, H.W.S.-003, etc., etc.

It is clichéd for a salesman to pump-up the value of the Auto Mag he has for sale by claiming it was Harry's personal gun. Sometimes a lion hunt and experimental status stories are spun about the sellers important Auto Mag.

An armed society is a polite society.

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Bulls Eye Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List International Auto Mag Joined: 20 Jul 2019 Location: Barstow, Ca. Status: Offline Points: 237	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bulls Eye Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: "prototype" on GB Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 7:52pm
	https://www.gunbroker.com/item/996399630

BEEMER1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Callahan's Auto Mag Joined: 06 Jan 2010 Location: iowa Status: Online Points: 1366	Post Options Post Reply Quote BEEMER1 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jul 2023 at 5:38pm
	That particular pistol has been offered for sale by the same owner for probably 3 or 4 years. His initial asking price was $7500 or maybe more, I do not remember. I do not know any of the history behind it, but several of his statements are questionable. There really were no "prototype" 357 pistols. The 44's were already in production and the 357's were just an auxilary barrel to swap with your 44 barrel. Max Gera was gone from the company before they started making vent rib barrels like what is on that pistol. That was the design by Lovendale. The frame is a post prototype model. Serial numbers are very important when you are manufacturing under the watchful eye of the ATF. Auto Mag Corp set up some guide lines for serial numbering frames and none were done this way. The cocking piece is similar to the one on Gera's non-firing concept pistol but was never used on any other pistols I am aware of. The stippling on the cocking piece and the front and back straps looks like a two year old's work. To me, the pistol looks like the work of an amateur gunsmith from reject parts pilfered from the scrap bin. Maybe someone else can shed some light on the pistol.

Dances with AutoMags Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Callahan's Auto Mag Joined: 13 Oct 2011 Location: Valley Glen Status: Offline Points: 613	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dances with AutoMags Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 2:30pm
	Thanks for that post Bob. THIS is why I wrote the book, Auto Mag the Pasadena Days. There has been so much misinformation spun by sellers and trolls that I felt someone had to state the facts and the time-line. I sold the #2 gun and now you have it. It is seen in several ads and in the Power brochure. The first .357 barrel is seen in the Aristocrat brochure and it was with the #10 gun, you also have. Cheers......Bruce
	An armed society is a polite society.

Dances with AutoMags Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Callahan's Auto Mag Joined: 13 Oct 2011 Location: Valley Glen Status: Offline Points: 613	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dances with AutoMags Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 2:42pm
	There was a method Harry Sanford used when he was strapped for cash. Harry was known to sometimes take several finished, unstuffed Auto Mag frames and have his personalized serial number HWS-XXX put on them. Ed O'Neil sold me one of these bare unstuffed frames. The frame was marked HWS-003. About a year later Ed had a set of six more HWS frames for sale and this time I could pick the number I wanted. I believe that this set of frames were numbered HWS 003 to HWS 008. Ed said Harry had previously sold several sets of his personally marked frames to raise quick cash. Ed later sold more of these frames to other collectors. This was about the time I lost all respect for serial numbers. I sold the frame to a collector and told him that it may not be the only HWS-003 frame out there. Except for the engraved gun, HWS-1-, I don't believe Harry ever had a "personal" gun. He had a whole factory full of them. The stories that are spun about these HWS marked guns makes me kind of sad. An owner of one of Harry's personal guns does not want to hear that Harry made up several frames that had the same number. The numbers were probably marked a little differently to satisfy the BATF. Like HWS-3-, HWS-003, H.W.S.-003, etc., etc. It is clichéd for a salesman to pump-up the value of the Auto Mag he has for sale by claiming it was Harry's personal gun. Sometimes a lion hunt and experimental status stories are spun about the sellers important Auto Mag.
	An armed society is a polite society.