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Automag III 9mm Win Mag

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XP001 View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote XP001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2012 at 4:38am

OK, Here some slides pics for you all.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote XP001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 7:16am

This shows how tight fitted the 9mm bbl is to the 9mm slide, bbl lug is the main issue.

 

This is the 30Carbine bbl lined up with the 9mm slide, as you can see it won’t fit thru as the bbl lug is to wide.

 

I did shove the 9mm bbl thru the 30Carbine slide opening and push it thru till it pop out the other side.

 

Now what I show here is the 9mm bbl in it’s 9mm slide, bbl hood locked in place.

Perfect fit/gap all around the bbl.

 

Now this is the 9mm bbl into 30Carbine slide, bbl hood locked in place.

The bbl tends to tilted downward as it really doesn’t fit properly into slide lockup groove

 

The bushings are way different also, the 9mm is so much bigger, ref. the slide openings posted last time

 

The recoil springs are a littler different, just by 1 ¼ extra spring coil

 

The hammers are different, I really don’t think it matters as I test slide both slides on both frames and they work both types of hammers. I did not test fire anything tho.

 

The internal bbl lugs areas look different, the 30Carbine has a radius at front, not sure if that would matter.

 

I stood my mags on the lips and lined them up at bottom backs edge while still holding them on the lips also.

All my mags lined up perfectly, no differences on my mags at all as far as shape of them go. The mag plastic follower I did not YET look at for difference. Mine 30Carbine mag is so dirty that I want to clean it before comparing.

 

I suspect that the 30Carbine was the first caliber made in Automag III cause this manual only shows that. I have others that show both cal on the front cover.

 

I will make a little summary of everything I found in a few weeks, it’s been fun and quite a learning experience for me to do this. I will also post a few extra comments about my 30Carbine as that is the only one of these that I shot of these Automag III’s. Be back soon.
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Luc V. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luc V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2012 at 5:18pm
XP001,
thanks for all the information, it's much appreciated as I know it takes plenty of time to 'shoot', edit and upload all the pictures ;-)
 
I look foreward to your summary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote XP001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 4:49am

OK, This will NOT a be a final answer about ALL the differences between the Automag III 9mmWinMag and the .30Carbine, I do not think that will happen for a long time unless one of YOU reading this do it!

 

What I found:

Magazines:

      * The 9mm is wider(1/16”) and longer(back-to-front 1/16”) and front feed lip is taller(1/16”)    

* Follower on the 9 has 2 steps on it, the angle is ½” from the front

* The 30 has 3 steps, the first ½” from front and another half way back

* The feed lips on mine are exactly alike

* The follower on the 30 rides higher onto the feed lips before stopping, while the 9mm

         follower seems to have a ridge sticking out the sides that stop it at the bottom of the feed
         lips’ area so it sits lower.

   I really had to closely compare these magazines to see the differences.

Frame

* The mag well on the 30 is smaller(1/16”) that makes the mags from the 9mmWin Mag tight.

      You can use both types to both frames but the 9 is tight in the 30 and the 30 is loose in

            the 9mm. It reminds me of the glock mag issue of some need to be pulled out and some
            were “drop free” style. I did not try loading, shooting or feeding them so that your call.

* The 30 Extractor has 1/16” more exposed than does the 9mm.

* The hammers are different shapes but the slides did work both styles.

Slide

            * 30 bbl can not go into the 9mm slide, bbl lug too wide to fit thru

            * 9mm bbl can be shoved thru the 30 slide but does not seat into the hood area correctly

            * Bushings are different sizes on both, as well as the slide bbl openings

            * Ejection port on the 30 has all of the top cut out as well as some down the left side,

               where the 9mm cut stops 1/8” left side of center on top.

            * Recoil spring for the 9mm is 1-1.25 coils shorter then the 30

BBL

            * 9mm much bigger then 30

            * 30 did NOT have slide lock-up ridge(yes, I know some said their’s had them but I

               never seen pics yet!)

Sites

            Here we go folks!

            I looked at 5-30’s, 3 had 3dot sights (all marked AMT), 2 had blk/lines 1-IAI, 1-AMT)

                                                4-9mm, 4 had blk/lines

Maybe the 30 with blk/line site went back for repairs and they changed it OR owner did it

Seems like they started without dots as the one was an IAI and is the first version and I have a spec sheet saying Adj Millet sites with my later spec sheets saying 3 dot sites

 

Now the question of when they move and changed the slide markings on the right side, I found three different styles so far. One day I will make up a chart of marking and locations but that’s another day(much later day)!

 

From my experience, I once was cleaning my 30, 50 and 2 or 3 other firearms after a day of shooting with my Uncle who I thought was a gun guru, boy was I wrong! We sat down and I was going to take one at a time but Nooooo he said no problem, assy line style. So he rips into them, after we got them all cleaned up and back together I check for slide function and seemed ok. So we start cleaning up the newspaper we had under them while cleaning and BEHOLD out comes a spring and ½”X1/8 dia pin. DUH, now where did that come from!!

I have shot everyone of them afterwards and never found out. Now I found out, it’s the spring and pin that goes inside the recoil rod. I guess it works without it too, lol. Function was fine even without it there, I’ve shot 500-1k rounds at least thru it since. I will re-install them now IF I can remember where I put them. It has been 15 years ago! I know I have them but where, hmmmmm.

It’s been fun folks and I have learned a lot doing this, recoil rod has a pin and spring inside also!

Till the next project, CHEERS
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Luc V. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luc V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2012 at 7:50pm
Thanks XP001 for your review. This should be a "sticky", since that question ( can the .30 be converted to 9 Magnum) shows up from time to time.
With your excellent info, the answer is NO.
Now I'm sure I just need a 'complete' 9 Magnum...
Yes, my .30 barrel has the locking lug on top of the barrel, and I have post pictures in a previous post.
I'll make some new pics, and post them again.
 
Ah, yes, the spring and pin inside the recoil rod...
Miine fell out one time when re assembling, and I checked to see if it made a difference...I couldn't even pull the slide back all the way. That spring and pin is pushing the barrel just a little bit further to the rear and down, to UNLOCK the toplocking barrellug out of the slide. Maybe that's the reason your .30 works without this pin if it does not have the top barrel lug. My slide get stuck without it...Confused
 
Confusing pistols AMT's....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schwammy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 12:08am
Originally posted by Luc V. Luc V. wrote:

Thanks XP001 for your review. This should be a "sticky", since that question ( can the .30 be converted to 9 Magnum) shows up from time to time.
With your excellent info, the answer is NO.

Agreed this should be a sticky.  Thanks for the effort you put into this!
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paul v. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paul v. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 12:53am
Holy smokes! The same thing (little pin & spring fell out) happened with my Automag III .30 Carbine. I've put a couple hundred rounds through it since and don't see any difference. If I ever find where I stored them, I might try to put them back. Thanks for the info!!! Now I'll be able to sleep nights, knowing that the pistol won't one day self-destruct on me.
Paul V.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote XP001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 5:42am
Paul V,   does yours have a locking lug on the barrel? New survey question here! Mine has no locking lug(top of barrel, locks into slide groove) and has no problem. Luc said has has a locking ring on barrel that locks slide groove and jams without that spring/rod.
Mine is a AMT with 3 dots.
Any other info on bbl type, post here plz
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Luc V. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luc V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 9:49am
 Oop, sorry I made a mistake in the earlier post, it was some time ago when this happend...
So the problem with the spring and pin removed from the recoilrod...
 
...is not in retracting the slide back, but it does not goes all the way foreward. Some pictures of what happens if the pistol is assembled without the pin:
This is where the slide jams on the barrel when the pin is not installed. (in foreward movement) 
 
Without that pin/spring, the barrel is moving to fast foreward and jams on the slide. A very slight push (to the rear) on the muzzle end of the barrel moves everything back into place. That is the reason this pin/spring is needed on MY pistol. It keeps the barrel a little longer to the rear so the slide has time to move freely over the "hood" of the barrel. The barrel "hood" is locking alot more into the slide as the barrel toplug.
Conclusion: On my AMT, the barrel is locked in TWO places into the slide, at the slide's ejection port and in the groove inside the slide. 
Here some more questions for you all: how high is the barrel locked into the slide on your pistols.
Barrel locked into slide:
 
 
Unlocked: Just push the muzzle to hard surface and see how much it unlocks. Doing this will show you the maximum tilting of the barrel (unlocking) before the slide can move freely to the rear.
Note the gap between barrel "hood" and slide, its huge on my III. I suspect it has to be that much to free the top barrellug (ring) out of the slide.
 
 
 
The ammount of locking into the slide, the bright spots are the ammount of locking into the slide:
 
 
And here some pics from the barrel lug (ring): It is not very big, but it does lock into the slide.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paul v. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2012 at 2:46am
XP001,
I was wrong about when I thought I cleaned, re-assmbled & dropped the pin and spring. Now that I been playing around with it, I realize that I haven't fired it since. It's an IAI Automag III, .30 Carbine and it has plain black front & rear sites, ring (lug?) on barrel and the barrel jams on the slide. I guess I'll have to dig out that pin & spring now.
Paul V.
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