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The AutoMag and .45 Win Mag

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desertmoon View Drop Down
International Auto Mag
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertmoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The AutoMag and .45 Win Mag
    Posted: 24 Sep 2017 at 12:31am
Soooo,

I am bored.....again.

Back the mid 1980s I remember seeing an AutoMag with a .45 Win Mag upper.....

Now, I am not interesting in .45 Win Mag, myself.....but in perusing the boards I remember people discussing the issues with the .40 range Auto Mag cartridges like the .41 JMP.  Due to the very minor disparity between the .44 AMP case and a .40 cal bullet, getting the shoulder correct was apparently a bear.

I believe that Eric came up with the .40 KMP wayyy back a long timmmme ago and that was based on the .45 Win Mag case.

That got me to thinking that using the .45 Min mag would make a LOT of sense in that regard was there's a lot more space to work with in making a good shoulder.

My question is this:  on the very scant few .45 Win Mag Auto Mags that exist:  did they use a special magazine...or by some miracle, would .45 Win fit in an Auto Mag magazine?  I would think NOT....but I am hardly qualified as an expert on the Auto Mag.

The point being that, being a 10mm fan, like many of you.....having a .40 range AMP cartridge would be pretty cool, thought I suppose hardly necessary.
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jw4570 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jw4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 1:41am
45 Win Mag fits and works in a standard Automag magazine just fine.  The maximum COL is 0.120 shorter on a 45 Win Mag than a 44 AMP in Hornady's reloading manual.  Also, the head on a 45 Win Mag is only 0.007 larger (though it should practically be the same since the AMP is based off of a 308 case).  However, the 45 Win Mag doesn't taper as much (or practically not at all), but remember it's shorter too.

At the time the Automag 45 Win Mag barrels were made, Winchester was making factory ammunition in 45 Win Mag (and has over the years from time to time).   That was somewhat of a draw.

Personally, I'd rather shoot the 357 AMP.

JW


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Gerry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 2:13am
Ditto
357 AMP
Gerry

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roodyrocker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roodyrocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 2:33am
Wildey made a few guns/barrels in .44 AM and they fit in their .45 Min Mag magazines. Im assuming the same would be true for an AM gun.

Rudy
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desertmoon View Drop Down
International Auto Mag
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertmoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 3:20am
Thanks for the info, guys. I am just playing with ideas in my head......

I have some exciting irons in the fire but also my mother is very, very ill and I am not sure she's gonna make it much longer so....little things like this to play with in my head.....make things at least a little better in small but important ways.

Though I certainly agree with the .357 AMP crowd as far as usefulness goes...I just DO like the idea that Lee had of filling in that little blank space between .357 and .44 AMP.

Eric's idea seems to be more "user-friendly" however....and it's cool to know you could pull it off if you wanted to.
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BEEMER1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEEMER1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by desertmoon desertmoon wrote:

Thanks for the info, guys. I am just playing with ideas in my head......

I have some exciting irons in the fire but also my mother is very, very ill and I am not sure she's gonna make it much longer so....little things like this to play with in my head.....make things at least a little better in small but important ways.

Though I certainly agree with the .357 AMP crowd as far as usefulness goes...I just DO like the idea that Lee had of filling in that little blank space between .357 and .44 AMP.

Eric's idea seems to be more "user-friendly" however....and it's cool to know you could pull it off if you wanted to.


44 diameter - .429",  41 diameter - .410",  357 diameter - .357"

The 41 is just too close to 44 to be of much use.

Even Lee said on here that he just did it because of the Remington 41 Mag and it really made not sense to him.
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Rumore View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rumore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by desertmoon desertmoon wrote:

I just DO like the idea that Lee had of filling in that little blank space between .357 and .44 AMP.

A .375 version probably would have worked a bit better, but there is only one bullet currently available that can be loaded to fit in the magazine.  The far right cartridge is loaded with a 200gr Sierra FN to Auto Mag length.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 7:36pm
The .40KMP was fun to develop, but it needed more refining. With the thin walled case and the steep shoulder angle, forming brass was a bitch. It wasn't uncommon for the case to collapse during crimping. I went with a steeper shoulder after coming across problems forming 41JMP brass, where I thought Jurras didn't make the shoulder steep enough. I experienced the 41 JMP would form unevenly. Meaning, the necks would form more on one side more than the other. If I did it again, I would just use the 44AMP brass. The reason I developed the 40KMP using the 45WinMag brass, is because it was popular in 1990, versus 44AMP wasn't really available. Plus, I had Harry's and Larry's support with the development, especially when they were manufacturing parts and components (10mm Magnum/45WM) for the Automag 4. One on my hopes someday is to bring it back as the 10mmKMP (or 40KMP Enhanced), using the 44AMP brass and a shoulder that's steeper than 41JMP, but not as steep as 40KMP.

.357AMP is one of my all-time favorite cartridges. I would most definitely would like to play with Tony's .375AMP Wink 

Eric

Originally posted by desertmoon desertmoon wrote:

Thanks for the info, guys. I am just playing with ideas in my head......

I have some exciting irons in the fire but also my mother is very, very ill and I am not sure she's gonna make it much longer so....little things like this to play with in my head.....make things at least a little better in small but important ways.

Though I certainly agree with the .357 AMP crowd as far as usefulness goes...I just DO like the idea that Lee had of filling in that little blank space between .357 and .44 AMP.

Eric's idea seems to be more "user-friendly" however....and it's cool to know you could pull it off if you wanted to.
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desertmoon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertmoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2017 at 2:00am
Thank you for the notes, Eric!!!!!  THAT was very interesting!!!  I appreciate your time!!!!!!

You, too, Tony!!!

Here's to seeing a .40 cal variant in the future!!!!
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