Print Page | Close Window

Part 37 - Trigger bar spring

Printed From: AMT Guns information
Category: Auto Mag Pistol
Forum Name: Message Board
Forum Description: Message Board
URL: http://www.amtguns.info/forum_posts.asp?TID=2538
Printed Date: 20 Oct 2019 at 4:49am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Part 37 - Trigger bar spring
Posted By: Ian
Subject: Part 37 - Trigger bar spring
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 11:28am
Hi Everyone,

Looking for some advice.

I was shooting last night and one of my automage was just not firing.

After a little look about and comparing it to my functioning AutoMag it looks like I am in need of a new spring.

Afterlooking at the functioning automag:

Functioning automag : right hand side






Non functioning automag : right hand side




As the spring is not applying any kind of tension the trigger bar is not getting any engagement and has the feel of the safty being on all the time.

So what can anyone tell me about the spring? Sadly, it may not be something I can replace easily so I am looking for number of coil’s it is supposed to have, rate etc etc so I can go on the look in the UK for something that can be used.

The next question will be hot to replace it without stripping the pistol down Smile but lets find one first.

Thanks in advance.


Ian


-------------
http://www.amtguns.net" rel="nofollow - Ian's AMT Information Page
http://www.glossover.co.uk" rel="nofollow - A little more about me - My corner of the internet



Replies:
Posted By: Auto Mag
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 12:59pm
A couple of observations:

You may want to take the time to do a full tear-down and cleaning, I think I see powder foulings and coagulated oil.

I think your initial problem was not a failure of the spring, but one of the epoxy that holds the spring in place at its base.

In later guns, they drilled/machined a pocket for the spring to sit in to prevent the damage you are experiencing now that the spring is floating around unrestrained from the surface is should sit on.

The spring itself should not be hard to find, I think you will find it without too much trouble from the several vendors currently marketing AM parts.

Its should be a quick fix, than back to the fun of burning massive quantities of powder ;-)

ATB

GH


-------------
Who was that masked man,,,


Posted By: Rocketthon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 2:05pm
I agree with the cleaning.  another thing to check is the rotate spring, my gun right now is going to get a tear down and clean which should include taking the bolt spring out of the cocking piece and cleaning the old off and putting new on.  While you are at it the sear spring right behind the spring that is broken in the pictures needs to be checked and made sure it is secure in its little mount pocket and has good tension. a failure there will cause a double fire, I know that real well and it will scare the crap out of you.

-------------
When you are up to your neck in alligators it is hard to remember your original intention was to drain the swamp


Posted By: Auto Mag
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 2:31pm
People often ignore the hammer springs as well, it seems to be a place where lots of dirt builds up if you shoot enough.

Thats why I suggested a full teardown.

GH


-------------
Who was that masked man,,,


Posted By: TRX302
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 2:54pm
Search on "springs" and there's a chart I made with all of the Auto Mag springs by coil and wire diameter, length, and end shape.

Wait, here it is: http://www.amtguns.info/which-spring-is-which_topic1049.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.amtguns.info/which-spring-is-which_topic1049.html


Posted By: Ian
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 3:18pm
Thanks all,

While there may be quite a few places in the US to order the dprings getting them to ship to the UK is a bit of a nightmare.

George Good spot, I did not even see the missing epoxy something to take down with me when I find the replacement spring.

Thanks Dave, with the information in the spring post I have all I need to find what I am looking for.

I will also begin a full strip down and clean of both of them as they will be almost as bad as each other on SUnday when I can get access to them again, that may take longer than finding the spring, the jous of British gun laws.

Ian


-------------
http://www.amtguns.net" rel="nofollow - Ian's AMT Information Page
http://www.glossover.co.uk" rel="nofollow - A little more about me - My corner of the internet


Posted By: edkel1
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 5:16pm
Ian
Are you saying no one will send you springs because of British gun laws ????????
Just a FYI Brian is no longer selling any Auto mag parts, he is making an inventory list for a potential buyer so does anyone have an idea of others that might have that part ???????? 
I would try contacting Bruce Stark or Patrick at the new Auto Mag Inc or maybe a member might have one or more they are willing to part with ???????
If you get me the part number I will see who has them and get you as many as you want and mail them to you Wink just let me know.
That's one of the reasons of this board, to help one another out.
Ed


-------------
" Right turn Clyde "


Posted By: edkel1
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 5:20pm
TRX302
Any chance of you sending that spring chart to my email   Wink  ?????????????
I would really appreciate that Smile
Thanks
Ed
edkel1@sbcglobal.net


-------------
" Right turn Clyde "


Posted By: Ian
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 5:33pm

 Hi Ed,

No for a change the UK government would be OK with them as they are just springs as they are not seen as a component part of a gun, the same goes for mags, grips etc etc. It would be items like the finished frame, barrel and other component parts that would be an issue on this side of the pond.

As the springs are gun parts it is my understanding that they fall under ITAR as they are gun parts, the last things I would want if for anyone to get in trouble hence the need to get the spring specifications so I can find something in the UK.   

Ian

 



-------------
http://www.amtguns.net" rel="nofollow - Ian's AMT Information Page
http://www.glossover.co.uk" rel="nofollow - A little more about me - My corner of the internet


Posted By: edkel1
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 5:43pm
Ian
If you change your mind plmk.
Don't those springs work for other items too Wink ????? and just wanted to let you know about Brian's for parts, it's just going to get harder and harder to find spare parts.
Let me know if I can help you out in any way
Ed


-------------
" Right turn Clyde "


Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 8:06pm
Hi Ian,
I check tomorrow if I have a spare one of those springs.

To bad we both have stupid gunlaws, or I would be glad to help you with the stripdown and cleaning if you could bring it over.


Posted By: Rumore
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 8:31pm
I had that same spring break in one of my guns back around 1990. I took a spring out of ball point pen, cut it down and installed it. It ran for years and years with that spring in place.

Tony


-------------
Run it up, until you blow it up, then back it down a bit.


Posted By: Auto Mag
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by Rumore Rumore wrote:

I had that same spring break in one of my guns back around 1990. I took a spring out of ball point pen, cut it down and installed it. It ran for years and years with that spring in place.

Tony


Funny, I use the same analogy about a cheep Bic pen spring all the time ;-)


-------------
Who was that masked man,,,


Posted By: Ian
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 9:43pm
Perhaps I will go buy some pens and get het up and running again :)

Luc, I was replacing the extractor on the AutoMag IV on Sunday and if will need to be files down a little so I have put the IV away while I take the extractor down. I will grinding a bit off it and take it back next week, if I need to take a bit more off it will be fixed on the 3rd week of trying something that should take a couple of hours to get sorted if I was at home so at least you can fettle away at home and take it back to the gun I get to try things once a week for a few hours it is just madness, still it will be up and running again soon so I can’t complain.

Ian


-------------
http://www.amtguns.net" rel="nofollow - Ian's AMT Information Page
http://www.glossover.co.uk" rel="nofollow - A little more about me - My corner of the internet


Posted By: TRX302
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 3:58pm
There are several spring manufacturers with web portals. You might not want 100 sear springs, but if a box of 100 is $7 it's cheaper than one replacement AM spring... $50 or so would get you a wide selection of springs in different wire diameters. You can also buy spring wire (music wire) in 3' lengths and wind your own trigger springs around a nail.

Many of the Auto Mag springs have specific end types - simply cut off, "close wound" with a square end, etc. It's not always critical, but you'll have to exercise your own judgement there.


Posted By: edkel1
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 5:11pm
Dave
Thank you so much for the list. 
I did have an idea like you said a box of 100 springs might be $7.00 or could be higher, it would be nice for about 10 or so members to buy a different box of springs each and then trade them with other members, its a lot cheaper than buying one them from Brian at $10.00- $15.00 each and we get treated like second class citizens but with Brian no longer selling where would you find the springs. All that comes to mind is Bruce Stark, Patrick or possibly a fellow board member that might have a stock of hard to find parts.
What are your thoughts ?????
One a separate note I recall you bought some parts from Matt the knife maker in Fresno ???????? or did I mix you up with someone else ??????
If you ever have a question email me or call and we can chat about these heavy blocks of Stainless
Ed
edkel1@sbcglobal.net
(714) 269-2025


-------------
" Right turn Clyde "


Posted By: jw4570
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 2:39am
You can order all kinds of springs and spring stock from McMaster-Carr. I didn't see anything exactly like #37, but several that were close, i.e., 0.125 diameter, 0.018 wire dia. You would need to cut to length, and the turns were not specified. It would be a little bit of a crap shoot. Maybe a local industrial supplier, or even a hobby store? I haven't had the best luck with local industrial suppliers recently, they were eager to help when the economy was in the tank, but now they really don't seem to want to help, or maybe those people that used to help me moved on.

And if Tony said a ball point pen spring worked, I would trust him, it is about the right size.


Posted By: TankMan
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 4:27am
To avoid any legal entanglements could one just send  a comparable spring?
I'm no expert but I can't believe the compression strength value isn't that critical
is it??

While we're on the subject how difficult would it be to machine the shallow cavity
to keep the end located? If I find this on one of mine I'd make that fix myself.
I have a choice of mills or large drill presses in my home shop. Any adhesive doesn't seem
a long term prospect.

Jerry


Posted By: edkel1
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 5:02am
Tony was right is looks like a piece of the spring out of a cheap ball point pen
Ed


-------------
" Right turn Clyde "


Posted By: TRX302
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 12:54am
Originally posted by TankMan TankMan wrote:

how difficult would it be to machine the shallow cavity
to keep the end located?


I had the idea Lee Jurras had done a fix like that on some of the guns he'd smithed on.


Posted By: Ian
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 11:36am
Love the idea of a dox of random small springs, somehting to look out for.

I htink the ballpoint may be the best way forward for the moment, I will let you know how it go's after Sunday.

Ian


-------------
http://www.amtguns.net" rel="nofollow - Ian's AMT Information Page
http://www.glossover.co.uk" rel="nofollow - A little more about me - My corner of the internet


Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 6:52pm
Many years ago when i picked up one of my AM's, I knew it had "issues".  I sent it to Brian Maynard for a "tune up" and a complete go-through by him.

Well my AM had that spring missing too.  I asked if he had any spare springs, or if it could be fixed.  He said that he just puts a spring (cut to length) from a ballpoint pen in place and it had always worked just fine.

He told me that the factory started gluing that spring in place when they started getting complaints of customers "loosing" that spring.  If he came across an AM that had that epoxy in place he knew the gun hadn't been fired much.

Part of his "tune up" was to put a recessed area there to help hold that spring in place.




-------------
If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?


Posted By: edkel1
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 7:09pm
Well Ian
Looks like you need to buy a few ball point pens to get that hunk of stainless working again Wink post on  how it works out.
Again i'm learning something new every time I read posts.
Ed


-------------
" Right turn Clyde "


Posted By: Ian
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2019 at 9:29pm

So good news, while I did not get any ball points I did just get a random box of springs and having found one with the correct diameter and cutting git down we have a winner, shot 4 rounds without any issues but not the 5th, after taking the pistol apart the spring had come out at the bottom just like the original, sadly we where out of time so next week we will go the same but this time a little epoxy at the bottom of the spring to hold it in place and we should be right as rain.

Also it was well worth stripping down and it needed a real clean so it should function quite a bit better once we have the spring sorted out next week, I think the second AutoMag will also be stripped down for a proper clean as well.

I was quite Lucky as I have the video that Larry did for Bert on the strip down and reassembly and that helped no end.

Thanks to everyone who offered advice and help and one more week and we will be back up and running again Smile

  



-------------
http://www.amtguns.net" rel="nofollow - Ian's AMT Information Page
http://www.glossover.co.uk" rel="nofollow - A little more about me - My corner of the internet


Posted By: AndyC
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2019 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by Ian Ian wrote:

I was quite Lucky as I have the video that Larry did for Bert on the strip down and reassembly and that helped no end.

Ian, I've never seen that - would it available for the great unwashed like me? ;) 



-------------
http://bane.2hell.com" rel="nofollow - My Iraq Pics


Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2019 at 8:20pm
Bert Mason sells the CD.  Scroll about 3/4 down the page.

http://www.automagheaven.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.automagheaven.com/




-------------
If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?


Posted By: edkel1
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2019 at 11:06pm
John
I would like that DVD too but looked everywhere and nothing, anything on Maynard does not work Wacko
Help
Thanks John and hope all is well
Ed


-------------
" Right turn Clyde "


Posted By: AndyC
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 3:27am
Aha - thank you kindly.


-------------
http://bane.2hell.com" rel="nofollow - My Iraq Pics


Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 11:12pm
It's not on Maynard.  It's on Bert Mason's website http://www.automagheaven.com/.

Scroll about 3/4 way down.  It talks about the DVD.  You'll have to contact Bert.

It is definitely worth the money.  It shows how to completely tear your Auto Mag down.  Every spring, pin, lever, etc.  AND, shows you how to reassemble it.

Thumbs Up


-------------
If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?


Posted By: edkel1
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 12:39am
Thank You John
I will give it a try and if I cant figure it out I might give you a call
ED


-------------
" Right turn Clyde "


Posted By: edkel1
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 1:21am
OK
I have tried and nothing, is it the stroke making me dumb or are most of the sites gone ?????I found one and it asked all sorts of questions but asked me to put ion a code, pics showing different scenes and mark the ones with a car but its blank  Censored 
Ed


-------------
" Right turn Clyde "


Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 1:42am
I'm trying to follow along, but can't understand what you are referring to by "most of the sites are gone".  There is only 1 site.  Did you go to  http://www.automagheaven.com/index.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.automagheaven.com/index.html . ?

From what I can tell you cannot order it directly off the site.  You'll have to contact him via email.  His email address is at the bottom of the page.


-------------
If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 6:07am
Okay everybody, you all now have the opportunity to purchase a DVD of a maven disassembling and then reassembling an Auto Mag with full audio commentary.  This shows a complete takedown and all of the tips and tricks involved.  This video is a valuable resource for repairing or replacing parts, or just gaining a deeper understanding of this classic firearm. Total cost to you including shipping and handling to a domestic address is $46!
I’ll ship abroad, but naturally international shipping will be a bit more expensive.  Please pay with a bank cashier’s check, postal money order, or cash.  No personal checks please.
Please make your desire known to me on my email at bert@automagheaven.com !

Remember, this may be an old posting on his site and price maybe higher now.  You need to copy his email address  bert@automagheaven.com  , then start your email vendor(gmail, yahoo or whatever) and then start an email and post his address (listed above in red) where it says to. Then ask him  how much and all the info you need to get it done.
OK, now you got the info here. 
Good Luck


Posted By: edkel1
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2019 at 4:43am
Well good news is Bert finally contacted me on the CD so I paid and am patiently waiting on the CD
Ed


-------------
" Right turn Clyde "



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net