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Automag III 30 Carbine: Malfunction: Need Help

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Category: Auto Mag Pistol
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URL: http://www.amtguns.info/forum_posts.asp?TID=2426
Printed Date: 21 Nov 2018 at 8:40pm
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Topic: Automag III 30 Carbine: Malfunction: Need Help
Posted By: kwesi
Subject: Automag III 30 Carbine: Malfunction: Need Help
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2018 at 4:54am
Intermittent malfunctions mostly have no primer strike while a few had a light strike.  I purchased this pistol recently which appeared to have very lightly fired.  She ran flawlessly on the first two range visits.  Same results with factory and my reloads. Is this possibly a known issue?



Replies:
Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2018 at 7:20am
First I would check the hammerstrut. It might be bent or broken.
Yes it is a known problem.


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2018 at 3:56pm
Luc: I won’t be able to check for a few days.  Haven’t been able to find a YT disassembly video or any online source for a hammer strut.  I’m growing  in my mechanical abilities. Do you know if the hammer can come out without any other parts being removed first? I did watch a disassembly of an auto mag II.   Are you aware of any companies that still have hammer stretch for sale? Do you rather auto mag pistols in different calibers utilize the same hammer strength pen? Thanks and Vance for your help


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2018 at 11:58pm
You should first learn to take it apart, which I didn't think was a hard thing to do. If you want a step by step write up let me know and I can do it for you. Now that you have it apart, look at all the parts and compare it to the part diagram or take some pics of them and post here, maybe somebody will see an issue. Make sure you have a measurement item next to part to give reference to it, ie tape measure or mic.

The bent hammer strut was an issue caused by the owners by allowing the hammer to fall without the slide on the frame. The hammer didn't have a "stop" to hit since the slide was off and proceeded to move forward more than the strut was designed for thus causing it to "bend". Even when bent they would work but depends on how much bend was in it. I have an AutomagII with one and it shoots well, I was too afraid to try to straighten it as it might break with my luck so it still bent and I'm not messing with what works.
Another issue might be your firing pin shorten/broken OR the firing pin shaft/hole is full of crud or gummed up. You can  take your finger and push the firing pin forward (like the hammer striking it would) and see if you feel any dirty resistance or does it move smoothly?

Let us know if any or this helps


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2018 at 12:58am
Thanks XP.  I’ve only removed the slide & barrel for cleaning.  YouTube is my friend.  I have not checked the firing pin.  The guy I purchased it from never fired it.  He purchased it many years ago for his dad.  He never fired it.  I’d bet it had maybe a couple mags thru it period.  I never let the hammer fall with the slide off.  I was wondering if the safety could be engaging. Hmmm now I’m wondering if one’s thumb could push the safety down during recoil.  Sure would be nice to have a YT video.  Do you know if the AMT II is the same dissassembly?  That is on YT.


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2018 at 2:20am
I removed the slide.  The firing pin moves freely.


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2018 at 6:30am
Ok, I’ll try to walk you through this w/o video. It really isn’t hard at all to break this down to clean and check a few things. There are 2 ways that it can be done, not sure which is better for you or if there is any reason not to do one over the other. Maybe others can chime in which is better for what reasons.

Method #1

First, rack the slide with an EMPTY magazine in it, locking it open, remove the magazine check the chamber to make sure it is empty/unloaded! Now you can manually release the slide, I don’t let it slam shut on an empty chamber, I just ride the slide shut slowly. Next you need to push in the recoil rod plug to become flush with the front of the slide. You need to hold this in and turn the barrel bushing clockwise (when looking at the barrel, good thing you made sure it was unloaded, right!) almost 90 degrees, this allows the recoil rod plug to now be released out of the front of the slide, going under that barrel bushing edge. CAUTION: be careful not to allow the plug shoot out and across the room or into your face! Slowly let up on the plug until you feel no more spring pressure, now remove it from the slide, then remove the spring from the slide through the front end. Next you can slowly open/rack the slide (careful, there is no spring pressure on the slide anymore so it will slide very easy, especially since the hammer is still cocked) until the slide release lever pin/pivot lines up with the notch on the slide, then pop the lever out going left of course. Now I hold the frame butt up allowing you the see the bottom of the slide when removing it, this helps keep the recoil rod and barrel together, carefully making sure not losing the pin/spring inside the back of the recoil rod (if you have one). Then slowly move the slide forward and off the frame. While removing the slide once you can see the recoil rod I normally put my hand around the slide and rod holding it in place till it is removed from frame. Once it’s off, you can slowly move the recoil rod forward off the barrel block that it sits against and then you can remove the pin/spring from the back of that rod. You must remember do NOT pull the trigger letting the hammer slam forward! You grap the hammer with one hand, while holding frame with the other, pull the trigger and then slowly lower the hammer! Next you need to remove the barrel bushing from the slide, you now turn it counter-clockwise back to the start position and then go 45 degrees more, if you look inside the front of the slide you will see a nub on the bushing, it must be exposed in the slide gap, now just pull the bushing forward and off the slide. Now you can pull the recoil rod out from the bottom of the slide and then you remove the barrel by pushing it forward through the slide and out the front end.

Method #2

First, rack the slide with an EMPTY magazine in it, locking it open, remove the magazine check the chamber to make sure it is empty/unloaded! Now you can manually release the slide, I don’t let it slam shut on an empty chamber, I just ride the slide shut slowly but STOP the slide when the slide notch lines up with the slide release lever pin/pivot pin. While holding it there, pop the lever out the left side. Once this is out, continue slowly moving the slide forward until it has no more spring pressure. Now you can keep moving it forward until you remove it from the frame, while doing this you need to wrap your hand around the slide and recoil rod to keep them from shifting and maybe shooting that pin/spring out from the back of the recoil rod. Once the slide and frame are separated, you can carefully lay the slide assy. down and now focus on the frame, while holding the frame in one hand, hold the hammer with the other hand, pull the trigger and slowly lower the hammer down. Now back to the slide assy., you need to push in the recoil rod plug to become flush with the front of the slide. You need to hold this in and turn the barrel bushing clockwise (when looking at the barrel, good thing you made sure it was unloaded, right!) almost 90 degrees, this allows the recoil rod plug to now be released out of the front of the slide, going under that barrel bushing edge. CAUTION: be careful not to allow it shoot out and across the room or into your face! Slowly let up on the plug until you feel no more spring pressure, now remove it from the slide assy., then remove the spring from the slide through the front end. Now you can slowly move the recoil rod forward off the barrel block that it sits against and then you can remove the pin/spring from the back of that rod. Next you need to remove the barrel bushing from the slide, you now turn it counter-clockwise back to the start position and then go 45 degrees more, if you look inside the front of the slide you will see a nub on the bushing, it must be exposed in the slide gap, now just pull the bushing forward and off the slide. Now you can pull the recoil rod out from the bottom of the slide and then you remove the barrel by pushing it forward through the slide and out the front end.

 

Now I did take mine apart and notice that while pushing the firing pin in (side that the hammer hits) FLUSH with the slide the pin does not become exposed at the breech, this is ok as the pin “pops” the primer by strike force. Next, using a punch to check my pin on this next step, I pushed the pin into the slide and it goes into the slide about 7/16 before it stops, the pin is not the same length out as the punch is in but this give you a good look at the firing pin head, it should by roundish. Also this allows you to get a good feel for firing pin spring tension and if the firing pin is gummed up in its’ channel. It should move freely and smoothly under spring pressure, no grit.

 

Hope this helped you. Maybe this would help others now that you already got yours apart. Maybe some can give feedback on which way is better and why it is. Both work ok for me. Hope I didn't miss anything, please advise if I did and I'll correct it, thanks guys (I know you guys will let me know too!)



Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2018 at 3:04pm
Thank you XP for taking the time to detail the takedown.  That was as far as Ive gone in the past.  I checked the firing pin, as you suggested, and it appears fine.  How about removing the hammer strut?  Anyone have details?


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2018 at 6:33pm
Did you get a manual with it? I'll see what's involved with the strut, really isn't that hard to work on these. The hardest part is dropping things and crawling around to find it. I learned to start with nice big clean area and work way over the table so when things fly/roll a little it still stays on table.
Still waiting to see pics of your work here, hint hint.


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2018 at 6:46pm
No manual but I printed one online. No instructions on removing the trigger, etc.  All my family are in town so until I can remove the hammer strut pics are of little value. Slide is off with barrel on the bench for now.


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2018 at 8:47pm
I just broke mine it down to pieces, pain in the butt to figure out how to get it back together because of the one stupid spring(sear) BUT I got it back together. Not sure if I did it the easy way or hard way. I'll make a post of my step-by step for you tonight.  The only "special" tool I used was a "dental pick" with a slight angle on it, I'm sure you can use a normal awl or pick or small phillips using the point, even a long thin nail would work. you will understand once I post details. I'll even include pics so it will be easy to understand what I did. Others are more than welcome to comment if there is a better way to do this.


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2018 at 11:53pm
XP: wow you are amazing!!!  Thank you again.  I’ve got the dental pic.


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2018 at 5:40am
well, I was wrong! I needed to use a 1/16 punch and a screwdriver and that was all that was needed for this break down, no dental pick. Here are some pics, they are in order of take down and put together. I'm sure if you copy it you can really blow it up on your screen. They are very detailed when i did them on my screen.

ENJOY!

Couple of comments, first my hammer spring and recoil spring look like a twisted mess and yep the hammer strut is bent BUT I never had any issues with it shooting and no jams. Mine also shoots/functions without the recoil rod pin/spring. It has been awhile since it was shot, maybe in the next few days I'll take it out back and run a box to check it again. Once it gets warmed up I may even clean it, lol. This is my shooter and has never given any issues even when it's dirty which it is now as I have not cleaned it for at least 700-900 rds. Bad habit too break but one day I will.

Last thing to say, I did NOT try to straighten the strut because with my luck I would break it, I also made sure I re-installed it the same way it came out. I didn't want to reverse the direction thinking it would straighten itself that way because it might not function or break. Why mess with something if it isn't broke! If I had spare I would try things with it but not without spares on hand. Just my thinking


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2018 at 2:54pm
XP: I can’t thank you enough.  I hope the mods will make this a stickie.  I will need to study your tutoral several times before attempting this.  Even then I will need a backup plan incase I can’t get it back together.  To quote  Dirty Harry “Every mans gotto know his limitations”..lol.  BTW: your excellent photos look very familiar to the YT video in the dissasembly of the Automag II.  Have you watched it?  I will watch it again and compare them.  I find it interesting that your AM functions fine with the bent strut.  This makes me more curious as to why mine is malfunctioning.


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2018 at 5:19pm
There are differences between the Automag II and Automag III, the main basic take down for starters, the extra pieces for ejector(3- ejector plate, spring and detent ball) on the 30- the II is just a piece that sits on top of the indent on the frame. The sear springs between them are so different as how to install them too. That is where I used the punch to have to push it up and onto the side step of the hammer. If you look at the hammer you will find there is a circle ridge around the shaft hole on the right side and the spring leg must be place on top of this and then you slide the hammer right against the frame. Takes a little practice but isn't too bad. I took a few pics of this area to show how it looks and if you don't do it right the ejector plate would be very tight to fit in and probably won't move/work. This would also cause the sear spring to be "WEAK" and may not hold the sear securely, allowing the hammer to push past it and fall unexpectedly!  I'm sure I could make a tiny little spring leg install tool that would just make it a normal step, I already have a few ideas, care must be taken not the over stress the spring and re-set it's form and ruin the spring totally. I'm going to do a write up doing this and refer to pics, did you notice I numbered the pics?
I also did "copy" the pic from this post and they are not as clear as mine, reduced resolution from the pic service to the board is my guess. If anybody emails me I can send them direct to you. The pic can be zoomed in so close you can be blinded by the glass beaded frame! Will work on the write up BUT first I want to have a little fun and take it out for a few pops!

Love doing this stuff as I learn and remember more each time doing it. If others have better steps please speak up as all positive input is good for learning these things. 

Yes, I did watch the Automag II video but it didn't install the sear and how to get that spring back in, at least the video I seen. I'll look again today for some. Surprised only basic break down of the III and lots of shooting but no total tear down. I'm not a big video talking person but it does seem like a good hands on type of instruction, reading/pics are a little dry but it's easy for me to do.


Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2018 at 7:01pm
Thanks for the tutorial and the Pics XP001.
I saved them on my computer and they are very good and clear.
 
Just one question about your AMT III, you say that yours do not have the little pin and spring inside the recoilrod, and works fine, but I would like to know if the recoilrod is drilled to accept the pin?
 
Luc V.


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 1:14am
Luc,
Yes it did and it did come with it installed.
Story is my Uncle (who believed he knew everything) decided when we got through shooting the Automag III, Automag V, Ruger P-85 and Ruger MK II that we would clean them all. I was new to the Automag III and V and wanted to go slow through each but he layed out the newsppaper, rags and then ripped them all down at once! Well once everything was cleaned and put back together we started picking the paper up and "POP" out falls the spring and pin. Never could figure it out for years as everything cycled and then was fired and worked. I saved the pin/spring but forgot where I put it, since moved and found it and now forgot where I put it again, lol. 
Since then I slowly started to take down and learn everything I could from what I own, quit being scared about not being able to figure it out, especially now since the net will have any answer to any problems that might come up.

I did fire 3 rds today through it and it worked perfectly. I only did 3 cause it was so windy and cold. I also didn't want to lose the brass as the grass needs cutting and is a little long right now. I have been only using my 22lr stuff and forgot how loud and much the recoil is on the bigger stuff, when your used to no recoil, any recoil is bigger. WOW! It was fun.


Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 7:12pm
Yes, thank you for the pics and tutorial XP001.
 
While saving this to my computer I ran across some notes that I had for it too.
 
I had found where someone was thinking that the safety was popping out of the fire position on recoil causing the hammer to contact the cam (ever so slightly) instead of making full contact with the firing pin on follow-up shots.  They posted that they taped the safety lever in the fire position and didn't have anymore problems with light strikes (or no strikes).
 
Here is what someone else posted regarding light strikes:  "My pin was fine as far as length goes but the safety caused light strikes so I deepened the recess into which the safety retaining plunger goes and that fixed the problem."
 
Someone else was having light strike issues.  Once they took it apart they found "burrs" on the hammer area where the hammer strut attached to the hammer, that may have been causing drag.  Once apart clean/deburr/polish those areas while its apart too.


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If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 7:35pm
Thanks for sharing.  My thoughts have focused on the safety.  Hoping to test her tonight.  Assuming the malfunctions resume I will put some tape on it to confirm.  I planned on focusing on the hammer position on each failure.  I will report back.


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 12:19am
Burrs on the hammer strut area and or sides of it would cause it to slow down and lose punch power. The safety thing might also if you use it enough that it wears lose. I know this may sound bad but I never used my safeties on these AMT Automag models (II, III, IV, V) as I always ran them dry and the slides locked back, then I would pull the mag so never worried about moving the safeties. Might be worth looking at if they move "freely", I did check mine now and they were a little stiff so no worries for me. 

Well here is my final install on the upper area of the frame stuff. I re-did the description of AMT parts so they were in numeric order to help find it faster. My instructions worked for me but if anybody has a better way speak up, sometimes your eyes are better than mine are. Hope I covered everything needed.




Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 2:43am
With all this talk about "other" issues might be the problem. I'll start with the hammer strut and maybe burrs. If you look at my pic of the hammer strut you will see scratches on it, looks like a few spots there, I'm not sure if this happened when I first got it and have since worn the burrs off or if there still is a little rough spot in there. so I'm not so sure about burrs there. My hammer sides were nice and smooth.

Next was the safety, I pulled the Automag III out again and now have learned how this safety works and how to remove it. Was a really simple thing to do but not sure I did it the "gunsmith" way as I'm not one and not sure if they would have better/special tools. Using a needle nose pliers(what?!) and my trusty punch, it wasn't much of a problem. After pulling it out I noticed the indents for the detent, mine were nice looking and you would have to be really careful if deepen them. The other thing you might look at would be the condition of the spring and the detent cover that goes over it. A stronger spring may be needed to force the detent in the notches more securely. Reinstalling this you must be careful not to do the "slide stop" scratch on the slide, as on the safety latch there is a stop notch that will ride against the slide if you pushed it in tight before you do the final turn around to lock it in position. 

Just my thoughts, any others?


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 3:56am
Range report: after a couple of rounds the hammer fully dropped but no ignition so I taped the safety ( even though it was definitely not loose).  Loaded a mag and she ran 100% for a few mags then it happened again.  Soft primer strikes.  Here is the pic of my hammer strut.  Looks bent to one side.  Is it supposed to be centered?


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 4:31am
What you perceive as bent to one side is that the strut is just more to one side than the other, no issue. The bent part that people refer to is the " stem" that inserts into the center of the hammer spring is not straight below the tab section that your seeing in your picture that goes into the hammer slot. Look at my strut than take mine and stand it on edge, that is the veiw your seeing in your pic, which you can't see the bend in it now.


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 1:01pm
Could these issues relate to a normal break-in period?  I doubt my AM has had many rounds since it was made.


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 3:47pm
Good question. I can't remember what mine did that long ago. I got this NEW sold in gunshops back then as they were still in business, along with that Automag V and BackUp 45. I was getting the oddest biggest stuff back then 1986-8 ish time. I don't think I would have been happy with maybe it fires or won't though. A few times might have ok but seems like you can count on this every outing, which I wouldn't be happy with either. Still waiting on seeing pics of your baby.


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 5:18pm
Every outing except the first.



Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 5:48pm
It looks from your picture that the hammerstrut pin is dragging on the frame.It sits to far out on one side. That might slow down the hammerdrop and cause the light strikes.
just a thought.



Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 8:14pm
Good observation Luc.  Any thoughts on how to eliminate that?


Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 8:36pm
A quick trick is to use a thin knifeblade and gently knock it between the frame and the pin and watch to see if the pin moves back in place.



Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 11:02pm
I learned long ago about camera angles, just because it looks like it's dragging from this pic it may not be. You need to stick your face in close to see if it is. Also, IF you break it down into pieces, you will really see if it was dragging against the frame by an arc mark on the frame. It doesn't make sense through when you think about it, according to your comments it work fine the first few mags, than started having issues. Did you move the strut at the start and it moved back, I doubt it. It never hurts to move it as every little drag adds up, I can't see it being the main or only issue. You also have the IAI branded Automag III. Forgot which came first thought it was AMT, then IAI and then back to AMT. Same owner, he just had lawyer/lawsuit protection issue worries.


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2018 at 11:27pm
 The first time out I fired 63 rounds flawlessly. I never touched or removed the strut. From my research IAI were the first pistol produced. Mine is a relatively low serial number


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 2:37am
I was able to center the strut as shown:

But as soon as I cocked then released the hammer it moved back to the left side.  I also removed the grips then pushed the hammer pin out then back in.


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 4:05am
Arrow "C" is showing the pin Luc was talking about. What Luc was saying was to move the "hammer strut pin" (NOT the "hammer pin"under the grip) over left using a knife blade (use a razor blade knife or hobby razor knife) just has to be thin because you need to insert it carefully enough to get between the pin and frame where I place arrow "B" and then slightly twist it/pry style to move the pin to left if possible. You won't move it too much because the ejector plate is tight on the other side of the hammer and it will stop against it(arrow "A"). Be careful and protect your eyes because the thin blade may break and pop off! The pin may or may not move this way it all depends on how much pressure your hammer spring is causing by pushing up on the hammer strut causing tension on the hammer strut pin. I'm also not sure how tight fitting your pins are, mine were so loose when I held the hole up/down the pins would FALL out. A tight pin may not allow it to move either.



Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 9:12am
XP001 you are absolutely right, the only good way to look for a good solution is strip and check all the parts.
Cameras do seems to blow up things so I said it looks from the picture...

However, kwesi said the pistol is working good now so you should remember the saying:
if it ain't broken, dont try to fix it ;-))


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 2:10pm
XP001: thanks for the clarification and photo.  I tried that first but may not have applied enough force.  I’ll try again and put on safety glasses!


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 2:12pm
Luc V: It is “broken”. Only ran 100% on the initial range trip     (63 rounds) fired.


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 3:26pm
Ok so the “correct” pin was easy to move with the knife. The pin is almost centered.  Now what?



Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 3:30pm
Load magazines and shoot…LOL


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 3:57pm
I would take that knife or whatever you use to move that pin with you to the range. Then I would shoot some rounds until you run out and it's fixed or IF it starts acting up check the pic location again. If it moved over again, move it back left, reload and shoot some more to see if that fixed it. Let us know and happy shooting.


Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 4:53pm
What ammo are you using when you get "light strikes"?
 
This may sounds odd, but I bought a few different brands of ammo when I first got mine.  I loaded magazines with the same ammo.  3 different brands ran perfect.  1 brand in particular had "light strikes" on every round in the magazine.  Pull the trigger and nothing.  Rack the slide, eject that round and grab the next one in the mag.  Again, pull the trigger and nothing.  Repeat the entire mag.  Once done I noticed all of the rounds had an indentation in the primer, but no ignition.
 
Just to confirm I loaded a mag with the "good" type and it ran fine again.  Of course to confirm, I loaded a "light strike" brand and the same thing happened.  No bang.
 
I have absolutely no idea why that particular brand had light strikes.  But I have never put that brand in the gun again, and the gun has ran fine every trip to the range.
 
I am not a reloader but I am guessing there is a difference with primers.
 
I told my story of light strikes to a few people and one of them asked "was it rifle ammo or pistol ammo?"  I couldn't remember and stated so.  One of the people tried telling me that rifle primers need a more "solid" hit, where pistol primers will usually fire with a lighter strike.
 
I DO NOT know if that is true or not.  All I know is when you go to the store to buy primers there are different primers.  Pistol and rifle.
 
So, are you getting light strikes with all the brands that you have pictured, or just one brand?  Try different brands and see if you're still having the issue.
 
That's all I got.  Thumbs Up


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If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?


Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 6:04pm
Luvz2shoot, you are correct, and might hit the nail on the head.
Rifle primers are harder and have a thicker base. However, I have never seen any 30 carbine factory ammo for pistols.
I always reload 30 carbine with federal (rifle) primers just because those are soft primers.
I see from the pictures that kwesi used Fiochhi ammo, and overhere everyone knows that fiochhi primers are hard, real hard. I quit using them just because of that.
Is the UMC yellow boxes still available in the USA, never had a problem in the AMT III when I shot those. And they are the most spectacular to watch...


Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 6:50pm

 

It appears that Remington still offers the UMC in the yellow/black boxes.  Remington also offers the UMC in green/white boxes too.

 
With my searching no one can tell the difference except for price.
 
 
 
 


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If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 6:59pm
Well it would be rare for me to MIX brands in the same magazine and doing it on different trips while TESTING for function?? I don't think they used anything other than rifle primers in factory ammo but handloaders would know better on hard/ soft differences, I know there are. I only used umc stuff. Don't think ammo would be issue unless the primers had various hardness which would be a QC issue then too. Didn't he say at beginning of this some were light strikes and some NO strikes? Well, no strike no fire. Let us hope he RIPS it down so we get pics of before and after, hint hint.


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 7:14pm
Fiocchi factory and my reloads with same results.  Some Primers are reported to have harder cups.  I  I think because they are used a lot of military applications.  S&B’s 
 Have been reported this way. My initial reload where with these Small rifle primers. So I switched to two other brands of  small rifle primers With the same results.


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 10:33pm
The only small rifle primers that I have on hand are S&B and Winchester.  Going to load tonight with the Win SRP’s.  I do plan to take her apart to at least check the hammer and strut.  Most likely next week at the earliest.


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 10:35pm
Factory ammo update: I also have some PPU’s.  Anyone know how hard their primers are?  Note: they all fired 100% on the maiden voyage as did the Fiocchi.


Posted By: USA 1776
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2018 at 12:13am
I'd pull the firing pin first. I know you said it felt o.k. on manual press, but I think its still possible its broke in half. Especially hitting hard Fiocci primers for at least 63 rounds. Yes, it SHOULD hold up better, but...   Easy to check b4 taking down frame.

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'It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.' Ronald Reagan


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2018 at 12:50am
USA 1776: If the firing pin is toast what are my options to find a replacement?


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2018 at 1:19am
Two of my reloads using CCI SR’s:



Posted By: USA 1776
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2018 at 12:12pm
That I don't know. Just an easy check before you try to tear down the frame. Even with the excellent instructions above, sounds like a pain!

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'It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.' Ronald Reagan


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2018 at 12:44pm
Is the firing pin removed as with any 1911? Remove the slide, depress the firing pin with a punch while at the same time pull the punch downward to release the firing pin plate (being careful to prevent the firing pin shooting out)?


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2018 at 2:23pm
Are you for real??!! This is the amazing AMT Automag III not an 1911, lol. I'll post more pics and instructions for the slide pin. It's not hard but just have to be careful not to leave a scar on the slide that some people do when taking out/ installing the slide stop lever. Stay tuned more schooling to come.


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2018 at 6:13pm
LOL...how would I know without your mentor ship.  I couldn’t bring myself to ask you exactly how.  BTW: check your email.


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 2:25am
Well here are some pics for you guys to look over and enjoy! I'll post instructions soon, gives you all time to look these over and throw out some opinions. So look over this set and study up and see if you can find any issues. I can't spot everything so feel free to speak up if you have any thoughts. Again, anybody that wants a copy message me and I'll send you one.





Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 11:39pm
Here are the instructions that I made to remove the firing pin and checking out the parts and how they work together. 
ENJOY






Posted By: USA 1776
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 2:18am
Do you think the IV and V would take down the same way? I'm thinking yes.
And thanks for the info!

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'It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.' Ronald Reagan


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 2:30am
Funny you ask. I'm going to get a mic and spend a little time going through all of my AMT stuff. I figure I'll learn more and make a thread on each as I finish if nobody did by that time. Sort of like this one but with all info right at top. Had fun doing this too and I learned a lot!


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 3:47am
XP: you are amazing to provide these extensive details and photos!  I doubt I will attempt either complete takedown without backup.  Hint: any chance you make house calls ;-)


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 2:57pm
Yes, I do house calls. I'll bring all the tools as needed and will do a great job. The only thing I charge is all expense paid for gas, food and lodge. I'll even bring some of my toys so you can play with them. So if you want to "pony" that up I'll be on my way. I don't fly either, too many problems with going through airports.
There is another cheaper way, send complete firearm to my FFL so I can look it over there with him(so it stays in his shop) and come up with the fix. You pay all expense when going through my FFL, so it's your choice.


Posted By: USA 1776
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 2:35am
XP, if you intend to go thru all that, might I suggest you borrow a video camera and make a CD to sell? Consider me first in line!

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'It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.' Ronald Reagan


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 5:27am
How did you like these pics/instructions? Reading is a little dry but it worked for me at this time. 

Credit to Larry Grossman and all the others that worked on these designs, they worked so hard to keep it so simple and easy I'm sure. I was surprised how simple and easy these are, maybe a part or 2 you have to work to get in place but it really is a simple puzzle, at least to me. Think about this, I broke down almost the complete Automag III with one screwdriver(for grips screws) and a simple punch, to make it really easy I also used a needle nose pliers, but that was it! You might need a smaller punch for the rear sight and an hex wrench for the trigger/disconnector bar screw. Not too bad I think.

I stated a few years back that I wanted to break them all down and mic every part and doc everything but I had an opps and it set me back some years. Feeling better now this year so I'm trying to get on track with a few things and this is one of them. Maybe most guns are simple and need few tools to break down but I thought it would be harder, maybe I'm just getting smarter? or just not afraid of them anymore. I do have a video camera already just would need to get a nice set up to do it, it really wasn't all that bad, I just made a lot of steps to make sure what I thought was common sense was written in because not everybody has the same common sense as me, people see things different. I wanted to try to "stupid" proof my instructions.

Anyways, first step done, I purchased a micrometer today. I have a few things in mind to do now that my warm weather fun stuff is done for the year. Maybe a CD is in the furture, but more like a "flash drive" as they last longer, are smaller and hold more.


Posted By: USA 1776
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 12:44am
I think what you've done so far is very informative. Just not sure how to save it from here. You said we could pm you for a copy, so think I'll do that.

I don't see the need to take any gun apart this much except for repair. A sonic cleaner cleans all the nooks and crannies just fine. Also, I'm stuck doing the work one-handed, so it would be helpful to watch hand movement and see hoe I need to adapt to do the same work. I can strip a 1911 no problem, but never seen these guns being torn down. Reading it is great, but watching would be very useful as well.

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'It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.' Ronald Reagan


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 1:29pm
+1 for what you’ve provided!  To be honest I wish I had the confidence to tear it all down.  Even with a Youtube hi def video I often need to rewind a portion several times to “get it”.  It is so rewarding though when I’m able to.  Thus far the hammer, hammer strut and firing pin are the only parts that I’m focusing on to resolve the malfunctions. Getting them out and back in is my goal unless of course they all check out fine.  If they are all in good condition I may need to take XP up on his generous options.  On another note: does anyone happen to know how the chamber compares with the M1 30 Carbine?  I’m working on a reloading project using the Speer 110 gr HO Varmit bullet.


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 4:50pm
I'll say this, a video will be done just won't say when it will be available. Have a few things to get done before this can be done. 

I'm not a reloader but want  to understand what you asking about with the chamber. I would think since both shoot the same caliber the chambers must be within specs of a general accepted standard. If there was a big difference, wouldn't we have some issues using the normal rifle ammo  in it? What did I miss?


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 10:26pm
The Speer Hollow Point billets have chambered fine in the AM III but a few did not go into battery in the M1. Since I trim all my brass 1.281-1.283 I’m assuming the shape of this bullet is a factor.  Or possibly their QC is off on some bullets. However possibly the chamber is more forgiving in the AM III.


Posted By: TankMan
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 2:00am
I read some previous comments about rifle vs pistol primers causing grief. I want to believe that the designer/makers of a pistol intended to fire basically rifle ammo knew they had to have a firing pin strike with sufficient power to ignite all comers...

Jerry


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 3:29am
I be willing to bet that bullet is your issue on that reload as there isn't much ogive for feeding it easily. How is your feed ramp on the M1? Been awhile since I looked in mine I forgot how they ramped it. It is a issue with semi's but funny how your AMIII feeds better than the M1. Just the feed angles and ramps, I bet if you decided to make that your standard bullet you could "fix" the M1 to take it, but is it worth the work?


Posted By: Pantera Mike
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 4:47am
My M1 carbine was my first gun, which I bought in high school. I’ve been reloading the Speer 110 grain hollow point for 35 years and have never had a problem. They feed and shoot just fine. 

At least in mine they do.....


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 5:12am
Good to hear Mike.  Possibly shortening the OAL and the powder may work.  What is the OAL of your recipe?


Posted By: Pantera Mike
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 6:27am
I’m not very creative. I just followed the Speer #9 manual and used the middle load of 14.0 grains of WW296, and seated the bullet so the cannelure on the bullet lined up with the case mouth.  I just measured for the first time ever, and it works out to 1.571”-1.572”. 




Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 1:34pm
Pantera Mike: thanks.  I called RCBS.  They say the issue has to do with how far I have their seating die seated.  Not sure I understood, as I was helping someone when they called.  She said when I feel the resistance to stop and raise the die 1 full turn.  I don’t recall feeling much resistance though.  


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 1:46pm
Pantera Mike: I re-read your reply.  I believe RCBS was discussing the cannelure in relation to seating. Note: Speer’s OAL is 1.635. I called them in hopes of getting a shorter OAL with less than 14.9 gr (max).  Looks like your 14.0 gr charge & shorter OAL  1.571-1.572 is the ticket!


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 10:17pm
Malfunction update: Special thanks to XP who, I believe, diagnosed the issue.  He suggested it was the safety involving the firing pin.  My pin was hanging up on a slight lip inside the safety.  My smith removed it and polished the large base on the pin.  Back to the range to test but on the 3rd round no primer strike.  We continued firing but in between shots we looked at the safety.  With each failure the safety was slipping downward ever so slightly.  We moved back to his bench and found a shiny spot inside the frame where the safety rubbed the slide.  This caused the safety detent to slip.  Possibly my detent spring was weak.  My smith found a Beretta spring that was the right diameter but 1-2 coils too long  (for the detent to slip in)  but definitely several coils longer than mine. He sanded off 1-2 coils and then it fit and felt secure.  Back out to the range and she ate my loads, Fiocchi and PPU 110 FMJ.  About 30 rounds!  I want to put another 30-50 down the pipe as a final confirmation.  Thanks again for everyone’s input.  We never took the hammer out to check for burrs or the hammer strut.


Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 4:29pm
Clap

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If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 5:35pm
Pantera Mike: PM sent.


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 5:02pm
For those interested in loading the Speer 110 HP bullet as Pantera Mike has I’m posting these photos.  Note: I do not know what length Pantera Mike trims his cases. My cases below are trimmed to 1.282:

COAL above is 1.660

COAL 1.651 to the top of the cannelure

COAL 1.572




Posted By: Pantera Mike
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 4:30pm
hmm. My Speer bullets (dating from the late 1980s) have both a cannelure and crimping groove as can be seen here:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010935978/speer-bullets-30-caliber-308-diameter-110-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-100" rel="nofollow - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010935978/speer-bullets-30-caliber-308-diameter-110-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-100

I seat the bullets to the crimping groove. Your bullets seem to be lacking this groove?


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 6:25pm
Interesting.  I believe you are correct.  I’ll look at them when I get back home.


Posted By: kwesi
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 12:18am
You are correct.  Speer must have changed the bullet!



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