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Rib breaking away from barrel

Printed From: AMT Guns information
Category: Auto Mag Pistol
Forum Name: Message Board
Forum Description: Message Board
URL: http://www.amtguns.info/forum_posts.asp?TID=2276
Printed Date: 18 Aug 2018 at 5:51am


Topic: Rib breaking away from barrel
Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Subject: Rib breaking away from barrel
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2018 at 4:01pm
I was not going to derail the thread "The New Automag", but this was brought up and I thought I'd post a picture.
 
Reference:  http://www.amtguns.info/the-new-automag_topic2024_page82.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.amtguns.info/the-new-automag_topic2024_page82.html
 
Pasadena Joe mentioned:  Not sure what they are bothered by about welding the barrel into the receiver and the rib on top, seems like it worked pretty good for the original gun.  Never seen one fail myself nor ever persoanlly heard anyone here complain about such.  It might have happened, but it couldnt be a big problem as no on post I ever read here talked about it actually happening to anyone here. Cant hardly believe machining a barrel out of a whole block of metal could cost less, so I just dont get it, why do it. was it a Max G idea that they just got stuck with?  Wonder if they will change it when they actually get to production, assuming they actually make it that far.  Well maybe it will help keep the prices up on the original guns. 
 
 
 
Well, I have one that is starting to break away from the barrel.  I am having a helluva time finding someone that can/will weld it.  Thankfully it only started to separate from the front and didn't start separating from the second weld too.
 
 
 
 


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If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?



Replies:
Posted By: Rumore
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2018 at 4:39pm
The welding isn't that big of a deal, but the finish-out will take a lot of time, even if everything goes right......which it normally doesn't.  If the welder dishes out either corner, they're seriously screwed.  After welding, the end would need to be faced off without screwing up the crown, or the muzzle would need to be recrowned as well. 
Keep in mind, the rib and the side edge of the barrel will be discolored due to the welding heat, so the whole barrel would need to be taped off and the rib media blasted.  The rear sight would also have to be removed and replaced to blast it.  Then you would need to hand sand the discoloration off the side/edge of the barrel and try and get the little sanding scratches to blend/match the rest of the barrel.

You're looking at probably 2-3 hours work......about $400, and the typical customer thinks it should cost $20 bucks to "just weld it up".

Tony




Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2018 at 5:56pm
Thank you for the insight.  I am not a welder, but knew that it wasn't just a "quick weld" and all is done.
 
Thanks.  Thumbs Up


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If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?


Posted By: Pasadena-Joe
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2018 at 6:39pm
Sorry for your trouble. Great quality photo, really helps you to see the problem. First time I have seen anyone say it was actually happening to them (in real time, not like 30 years ago)

This site has been running for quite a few years and Im pretty sure no one has posted a picture like that. -Joe


Posted By: BEEMER1
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2018 at 6:48pm

I have seen several for sale on GunBroker with cracked ribs like that, some worse.

I also have seen the locking lugs ripped out of barrel extension on several guns, mostly solid bolt.  I have been told that the solid bolts were carbon steel and not stainless and were heat treated a lot harder than the extensions.


Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2018 at 8:29pm
Thanks PJ.  You mentioned it in your other post and I thought "That is happening to me.  I need to post the pict."
 
Beemer, I've not seen any that are distinctly cracked like mine.  I guess I should say that I can't tell if they are cracked or if it is just the way the picture looks in the post.
 
I know mine is cracked as I can pull it slightly away from the barrel.  I tried to get a pict while I was pulling on it, but didn't want to risk breaking the second weld loose.
 
Big smile


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If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?


Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2018 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by BEEMER1 BEEMER1 wrote:


I have seen several for sale on GunBroker with cracked ribs like that, some worse.

I also have seen the locking lugs ripped out of barrel extension on several guns, mostly solid bolt.  I have been told that the solid bolts were carbon steel and not stainless and were heat treated a lot harder than the extensions.
 
 
I have heard this too.


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If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?


Posted By: USA 1776
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2018 at 11:19pm
If I were you, I'd PM Mr. Tim Bell at Bell Armament about the welding. He seems to know these guns well and the worst he could do is say no. At lest he might suggest somebody to do it.

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'It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.' Ronald Reagan


Posted By: BEEMER1
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2018 at 1:05am
Send William Bryant a PM, I am sure he can do it.


Posted By: Bellarmament
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2018 at 2:08am
Swore I was going to stay off of the forum tonight but got curious when checking my e-mail and couldn't stand it. I will be short as I have to get back in the shop. Looks like another all nighter.

17-4 PH is not bad at all to tig weld. I think the last  17-4 job I did was salvaging an Auto mag frame for Patrick that had the butt of the pistol squished in a vise ( go figure ) . Naturally when heated and expanded with mandrels it split the front strap near the bottom about a half inch. Also have welded in a few barrels and filled casting pits with good results. Just veed it out good and cleaned it and welded her up. I generally back up work areas with copper bar stock to keep from melting off a corner. Never had a cause to weld with 17-4 until Auto Mag.

Tony is correct about the finish time. Nothing I feel says more about a gunsmiths ability than his finish work! Mostly hand filing and then flat stock and sandpaper to keep flats flat. Nothing makes me angrier than edges rollled off on a buffing wheel and dished out drug screwholes and wavy flats.

Just make sure who ever does it vee's it out deep enough to get a good weld that wont be finished away when everything is cleaned up and recrowned.

Presently I am doing R&D for three companies and am spread pretty thin. I know WB is good at what he does and he knows finish work. If he doesn't want to do it I could probably get to it mid summer.

17-4 welding rods are expensive due to the amount you have to buy. I had to buy 10lbs. If you do find someone and that can get to it sooner I have plenty of rods if that will help. Do not attempt to weld it with 304 or any other rod as it is best to use the 17-4.

Finished my cup of instant Maxwell House coffee and now I am outta here! Everyone have a great evening!



Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2018 at 5:02pm
Beemer and Tim, thank you for the help and info.
 
I have 2 more places to "visit" and ask.  If those end up being dead-ends too, I'll reach out to William and Tim.  Tony too as it appears that he has experience with this.
 
Thanks again!
 
 


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If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?


Posted By: 1250
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 3:37am
Great posts. Just to be different, how about removing the front section of rib and put a scope on it?


Posted By: Travis Morgan
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2018 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by Rumore Rumore wrote:

 and the typical customer thinks it should cost $20 bucks to "just weld it up".

Tony



Amen to that statement. 
If I could get even just $0.20 cents per all the occasions that I have had customers come in and tell me "how much it ought to cost" - or better yet, "how long it should ONLY take to do"; I would probably be able to afford not just one, but two brand new Automags (without ever wincing, whining or complaining once) LOL


Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2018 at 8:42pm
I agree that "just welding it up" may run a little more than $20 for a shop that is set up to do this. I know the finish work is what would cost because of the time involved.

As for cutting it off and mounting a scope..... No thank you. I'm a nostalgia lover of the barrel with the rib. I'm not even very fond of the barrels without ribs. I like my full length ribs.   

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If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?


Posted By: tgt40
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2018 at 10:34pm
Yeah the only person worth what they earn is themselves....it's too bad.  But we're talking ribs...  Luvs, good luck with your project it sounds like you've got good advice.

Second to this, I've got an 8.5" unribbed barrel.  I too like ribs.  Any thoughts on where I could get one?





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