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Is this a good Auto Mag to buy??

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Luc V. View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 Dec 2014 at 6:38pm

Is this a good Auto Mag to buy, or is it to much used ?

 

Well, that is a question that only the buyer can answer I guess.

However, in this post I will try to show you how a "well used" (but taken care off) pistol looks, so you can decide if your find is worth the buy.

 

Since my main intrest is machineguns, I have bought many used guns before. Since I hardly had any problems with all my purchases, I would say: don't be afraid of used guns, most of the time they are well worth their money.

Well, it's kind of hard to find/buy new machineguns overhere. In fact, the only brandnew MG I bought was my FN MINIMI (SAW M249) but that's off topic now...

 

Most readers here know I buy my guns to use, so I'm not afraid to show some honnest pictures of my used 44AMP. I did clean the pistol before I took the pictures, but not "clean the hell out of it" just to have nice pictures...what you see are true pictures of todays status.

 

Don't ask me how many rounds I have shot through the gun, I can't answer that, since I don't keep record of that information, but it sure is a couple of thousand, but less than ten thousand. Is that all you ask?  Well hey, I'm not Lee Jurras ;-))

I have to say that my loads are always kept in the "medium" as all I do with this pistol is killing paper, or what we call here: hunting for bulls eyes...

The loads aren't pussy loads, just not the last drop of pow(d)er eighter.

 

Here goes, 

The pistol:

TDE Model 180

 

One of the first things to see on my pistol, is that the logo and brandname is almost fade out.

It's still etched in the metal, but the dark colour is almost gone. I never found a way to sort of re-blue this.

Part 1

I will start with an overview of the bolt.  Here you see how the bolt has rubmarks on the outside, those spots can easily be removed with fine steelwool or scotch bright should I wish, but that should be done just before I sell my pistol (joke)

 

 

Because the bolt rides inside the ring on the frame, some scratches will show up on the surface of the bolt, no matter what grease or oil you use. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The front of the bolt:

 

 

The shiny spot is where the accelerator hits the bolt:

 

In the above pictures, I have noticed that looking at pictures is not a good tactic to make a judgement. Some shiny spots are sort of "blown out of proportion" in front of the lens.

Sometimes they look bad or dangerous, but a picture from another angle might be more realistic as the two above pictures show.

One example to look for used markings is the picture below, the BACK of the bolt lugs. Here is where most of the pressure is pushing on the lugs :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I shall make this the end of part 1, as time permits I will update this topic.

Please make comments good or bad, ask questions, suggestions etc, I will try to answer to all.

Stay tuned, and thanks for reading.
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Luc V. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luc V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2014 at 8:27pm

In  Part 2,

I will show where to look for traces of a used gun in the barrel extention or "upper". 

 

 

 

 

 

Below, some details of the barrel lug. The part that slides inside the frame.

The shiny lines are the dragmarks.

Those two lines in belows picture, are the spots that rubs over the ring of the frame.

Here the top of the frame ring:

 

The inside of the barrel extention looks clean without scratches:

Now some details where the bolt ears are sliding over the barrel extention.

 

 

 

 

Just some scratches, but here again when making close-ups, it looks much worse...

 

The other side, the "ear" marks are hard to see:

 

but in close-up it looks like this:

 

So, don't let the camera fool you when you see some scratches, the camera makes them worse than they are in close-ups...

 

Now for the muzzle:

 

 

 

 

 

To me the above looks all very well.

 

Since my TDE is Magna ported, it's impossible to keep this undamaged. Hot gasses escaping this ports WILL burn into the ventilation rib, No matter how much you clean this.  

You can remove the carbon build up, but you can't replace the tiny spots of molten metal:

 

 

 

 

 

Next I will show some pictures of the pistols' "rear end":

 

Nothing special here, so here's another picture:

 

Here I think you can learn more about the number of rounds fired, a more used gun will show heavier marks on the hammer and frame:

 

 

And in case you haven't noticed:

 

Don't forget, the hammer will be touching the frame every time you pull the trigger...

This is the end of part 2,

I hope you all enjoy the reading, so keep looking for the next part, that will be the details of the frame.

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
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Ian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2014 at 8:35pm
Having shot this one I would have it in a heart beat :)

Ian 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote XP001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2014 at 10:05pm
Luc,
First, thanks for doing this as I have always wanted more details on it.

My only question is on one pic you posted, I understand you didn't clean these perfect so maybe it's just crud but have to ask to learn. 

The bolt lug looks like a crack is started in a chip-like on the the lug I marked or is it just a layer of crud?
Thanks for the info and pics

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Luc V. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luc V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2014 at 9:49am
XP001,
I'll try to explain what you see here.
That is the area where this longer lug on the bolt locks up with the lug inside the receiver. This longer lug is not fully supported by the lug in the receiver.
There is nothing wrong with the bolt, the lines you see are just the mirror image of the lug in the frame. The locking lugs in the frame are not as big as this larger lug on the bolt.
Closer rear view of the bolts lockinglugs picture:
 
Here's a picture of the lockinglugs inside the frame, notice they are smaller as that big lug on the bolt, the right Arrow holds the small top lug of the bolt, the left Arrow points to the lug that holds the bigger boltlug:
 
Here you can see the frame locking lug from another angle.
This is the only bit of lug that holds the bigger lug on the bolt. Take note of the gap to the left of the Arrow, that is the 'free' space to unlock that bigger lug. I'm sure you know the bolt turns counter clockwise to unlock ;-)
 
This is why I said that looking at the rear of the bolts locking lugs will tell you more about the number of rounds fired. There will Always be some 'print' on the locking lugs if you shoot the gun. OK, maybe not after just one box of cartridges. This will make the difference between a shooter and a wallhanger.
 
Here some more examples, the locking lugs from my M16, that one was used alot, it's a US property ;-)
 
 
 
Again here, the close-ups looks like it's a big deal, but in fact the 'rib' is hard to feel with the fingernail.
 
One more example about marks from the lock-up is my Glock 20 (10mmAuto), this is the one I used alot when I was shooting IPSC:
 
I hope that this is more clear to understand.
Ps, I would love to see a picture from your bolt at the same spot. Your shooting gun please Wink
Thanks.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote XP001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2014 at 9:08pm
Luc,
Thanks, now I understand  that mark. It's the print of the lug lock-up since it's smaller than the bolt it prints its' shape into the bolt lug. Your first picture is much better to understand as the one I marked as that one looks like a crack is starting around, which it isn't now that I understand the lock lugs set up.

I would post some pics of mine but it only had a dozen rds thru it (that's what I was told), now I'll go a check mine. I purchased it many years ago, shot a few rds and put it away as it jammed too much. I knew sooner or later I would get around to  knowing more about them someday and would than figure it out.

My other one is a safe queen and will be sold NIB someday, lol!

Pics coming up later this week
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nada Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2014 at 11:14pm
Thanks for this excellent thread.
Very instructive!
(Good for a buyer, but also a perfect illustration to show were to lube parts!)

Now, if someone with a low miles Auto Mag (less than 1000 shots) could do the same pictures, that would be great to compare conditions of both guns.
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Luc V. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luc V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2014 at 11:43am

Part 3

Is about where to look for details of use on the frame.

 

The first place everyone is looking, is if the accelerator has made a mark on the frame.

I guess this will be visible even after a couple of boxes.

Here's a picture of my frame at that spot:

 

 

Another place that will show the evidence of use is where the barrelextention slides over the frame:

 

 

The spot or shiny line you see above is not deep at all, it's sort of polishing the rougher finish of the frame. Probably a good spot to drop some lube on.

One more picture from another angle:

 

 

In the next picture, you will notice the drag marks in the frame made by the barrel lug. This lug or 'foot' slides back and forth under recoil.

Only one side is marked with arrows, but you will find those dragmarks on both sides in the frame.

 

 

 

 

This picture below shows what causes the marks, here the same note, those lines are not deep scratches or cuts, just sort of polishing the metal, made by the parts rubbing against each other.

Just another point to lube.

 

 

So far the frame details.

Those are the easiest places to search for a well used gun. I think you won't make those marks by just handling or shooting a few rounds.

 

Well, when I clean my pistol, I always check for worn or damaged parts, but never looked at it that critical. 

However, everything considered I guess it the pistol is in a pretty good status.

 

So  the question remains, Would you buy it???   (Just kiddin' of corse) LOL

 

 

...

 

 

 

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