AMT Guns forum

Forum Home Forum Home > Auto Mag Pistol > Message Board
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Cast bullet FAIL
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Cast bullet FAIL

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Pantera Mike View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
Callahan's Auto Mag


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 674
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pantera Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cast bullet FAIL
    Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 1:43am
All,

After reading about Andy’s success with cast bullets I deduced to give it a go myself. I found two suitable 240 gr hard cast coated bullets from Missouri Bullet Company and ordered 500 of each. 

Today I loaded a handful of test rounds with 22.5gr of WW-296.  The max advertised cartridge overall length (COL) for the 44 AMP is 1.695”. I seated them initially to 1.640”, then loaded them in the magazine and test-cycled them to ensure they would feed. 

After ejection, I measured them again and they had all grown! Most were about 1.650-1.655”.  I loaded them all in the magazine again and once again cycled the bolt to chamber and eject each of them, and then they were all 1.670-1.685”. 

I tried all sorts of tricks—no neck flaring, more taper crimping, less taper crimping, seating deeper, seating shallower, nothing worked. In some cases, I could take a completed round from my press and simply pinch it and drive the bullet into the case. 

As an experiment I loaded several Hornady XTP 240gr JHP and ran them through the same cycle. Repeated loadings and ejections resulted in zero bullet movement. 

Maybe the results would have been different if I was using cut down rifle brass instead of thinner Starline pistol brass. But it seems that the slippery coating they put on their coated bullets is simply too much for the case walls to contain. (I’m using an RCBS carbide sizing die).

Fortunately I load 44 Magnum also.  I’m about to load some test rounds and see if they do any better there. But at least for 44 AMP I will be sticking with jacketed bullets. 
Back to Top
Luc V. View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 1265
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luc V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 6:30am
Hi Mike,
are you sure the bullets are at least diameter .429 or even better .430 ?
It sounds you have bullets in size .427 made for the 44-40 Winchester caliber.
Back to Top
Pantera Mike View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
Callahan's Auto Mag


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 674
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pantera Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by Luc V. Luc V. wrote:

Hi Mike,
are you sure the bullets are at least diameter .429 or even better .430 ?
It sounds you have bullets in size .427 made for the 44-40 Winchester caliber.

Luc, good question!

No, these are .430 bullets especially intended for 44 magnum. I measured them. I just loaded a box of 44 Magnum revolver rounds and they work perfectly there. 

It’s possible that if I got the uncoated versions of these lead bullets they might have worked in my Starline 44 AMP cases? But the coated bullets are VERY slippery.
Back to Top
Luc V. View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 1265
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luc V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 6:32pm
Thanks for your info Mike, always good to learn from others!

I never used any pvc coated bullets, but if they are so slippery I would not use them. Just my 2cts of course...
Years ago I used some copperplated bullets that were also very shiny and slick. I could never  get a consistent velocity or accuracy with those. Also lots of unburned powder.
You need a good grip to case/bullet to start making the powder burn well. If not, the primer has enough force/pressure to push the powder foreward and blow the bullet foreward off the case before the powder start to burn.
You might try a firm rollcrimp for a revolver, but don't overdue this or the coating could be cut in half...

Keep an eye on the unburned powder after shooting some, that's usual a good indicator for inconsistency.


 

Back to Top
jw4570 View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
Callahan's Auto Mag


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Location: FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jw4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 10:27pm
There have been others that talked of problems with cast boolits in the Automags.  I don't shoot them in Automags or try so I have no experience.  I use them in 38, 44 spl and mag, and 45 colt, among a lot of other older calibers originally cast.  

Those will make fine 44 SPL loads, which is a favorite of mine to shoot in the revolver.

Jason
Back to Top
Pantera Mike View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
Callahan's Auto Mag


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 674
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pantera Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 12:51am
Yup, same here. I shoot coated cast Keith bullets in 357, 44 Special/Mag, and 45 colt, and coated SWC in 45 ACP, and coated FP in 10mm, all with no issues. I use JHP for all Auto Mag, and 357/44 Bain & Davis. I guess I will have to stick with that for now….
Back to Top
AndyC View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
Callahan's Auto Mag
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jul 2015
Location: Dallas, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 438
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndyC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 2:29am
Originally posted by Pantera Mike Pantera Mike wrote:

In some cases, I could take a completed round from my press and simply pinch it and drive the bullet into the case.

Ouch. That's not an experience I've had at all - but I first tried the regular cast/lubed bullets as they came from SNS and then coated using Eastwood's "Silver Vein" powder which is a little rough.

Neither of them budged - all I can imagine is that whatever coating Missouri uses is pretty slick. Another thing - while I recently did buy the new RCBS die-set, I haven't used them and therefore haven't used the T/C sizing die as you have, Mike; maybe that is another factor?



Back to Top
Pantera Mike View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
Callahan's Auto Mag


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 674
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pantera Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 6:10am
I thought the same thing. Maybe I was over-crimping and causing the case to bulge. So I tried with less crimp, no crimp, lots of crimp.  Also with less neck belling, even no belling. Made no difference. I just couldn’t get sufficient neck tension. Yet the same bullets in 44 Mag work perfectly. 

Maybe I would have had better luck with 44 AMP cases converted from rifle brass? But it seems the Starline cases are just a bit thin….

Since I shoot plenty of 44 Special and Magnum too, I just got some uncoated hard cast bullets:


Rated to 1600 fps without gas checks.

I will give these a try with 44 AMP and if they don’t work either, I will happily send them down revolver tubes….
Back to Top
Stainless Magnum View Drop Down
International Auto Mag
International Auto Mag
Avatar

Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Location: New "Old West"
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stainless Magnum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 7:52pm
Have you tried partially sizing the neck with the .44 Magnum die?
I read carefully, but didn't see if you did that Big smile.
I had a similar problem with bullets sliding after crimp on some 50/70 loads (smokeless BTW).
I sized the neck with a 50AE die, and belled afterwards. The added neck tension made them the best loads I have ever shot.
Very consistent velocities.Cool

Good luck in any case Smile.
"Feo, Fuerte, y Formal"

John Wayne, on how he would like to be thought of.

Translation: Ugly, strong, and dignified.
Back to Top
jw4570 View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
Callahan's Auto Mag


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Location: FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jw4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2022 at 2:43am
You could try the LEE collect type factory crimp die:


They have one for 44 Auto Mag.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.079 seconds.

 - amtguns.info All rights reserved