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Automag Ammo

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omie01 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 12:25am
 Just curious, did the original Automag ammo have the CDM headstamp? I bought 7 bullets from a gun show, and the headstamp is CDM, but when I saw a bullet next to the AM box in old literature the bullet style is identical. Also, if someone wants to part with a box of AM ammo in .44, I would be interested! I would really like an original box, and know it might be a bit pricey. 
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sirsaka View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sirsaka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 4:06am
Omie, I have just what you need. One of my customers has a few boxes of original CDM ammo for sale. I think the price is around $125.00/50 rds. He may drop the price for a bulk deal. Let me know if you're serious and I'll shoot him an e-mail. We've been working on posting it all on GunBroker.com but I've yet to receive a picture from him to post the ad. LOL
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.
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curmudgeon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote curmudgeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 5:22am
Its not my intension to put sh-- in the game, but the original CDM ammo is collector only. Its too underpowered to be of any practical value, less than 44 Spl ballistics, will not function most guns. Its a long story how this came about. Since there were no ballisticians connected with the AMT factory, they sent some load data to the Rem facility in Mexico. The Rem facility thought it was a 1911 style action and would not load the 45K CUP load that the factory load suggested. So in their wisdom they loaded what they thought was a safe load. IIRC the CDM stuff checked out around 17K CUP on our pressure equipment. About 10 years later I sold my pressure equipment for the 357,41, and 44 calibers to Kent Lomont. About 5 years ago I tried to talk Kent into selling it back, he said he might as well as he had never used it for the AM cartridges. To my knowledge it is still at Kents facility in Salmon, ID His son Layne is handling that facility now and I haven't talked with Layne since Kents passing. In short the.  CDM ammo as loaded by CDM is kinda a joke most has been sold as collector original AM ammo. A joke that it was loaded by someones ok w/o approval from Harry or anyone else at the factory. It should never have been made.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Auto Mag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 5:42am
LEJ, I think "most" of us will agree with you regarding CDM AM ammo, it is collectable at best as it was a real weak load and the powder was just nasty,,,  But now that we have you talking ammo, what is your opinion about shooting original Norma - Super Vel/Jurras - Beals Bullets - Lomont Ammo - Sandia Ammo that is now 35+ years old.
 
Sorry if you have addressed this in the past, and I personally dont plan to shoot any vintage ammo, but I would be interested in knowing if ammo becomes unsafe for use after some period of time?
 
What say you?
 
Thanks - GH
Who was that masked man,,,
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sirsaka View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sirsaka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 2:37pm
I agree with Lee that CDM is collector value only. I would never shoot the stuff because it is week and now very old. But I think everyone should have a box because it is THE ammo as far as AM,s go.
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.
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omie01 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omie01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 4:56pm
I agree, and thats the only reason I want a box, just for my little collection. Just trying to get 1 of everything to do with the AM!Smile Its fun history! Was the Automag labeled boxes of ammo CDM?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMTFAN44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by omie01 omie01 wrote:

  Was the Automag labeled boxes of ammo CDM?


Yes, the white/red/black boxes with the Automag logo is the CDM.  The Norma ammo came in one of their regular (for the time period) wood-grain printed, looking boxes.  If I remember correctly the only difference in the Norma boxes from their other ammo loadings was the end flap that said 44 AMP.  It was packaged better than the CDM stuff.  CDM ammo boxes have all 50 rounds in one cardboard box (that slips inside the outer case) and Norma ammo has dividers so all 50 rounds are seperated (if that makes sense).

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7mmMKsuper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 7mmMKsuper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 7:34pm
Hey Lee,
   Was/Is that equipment copper crusher type or Piezoelectric type?  Universal Receiver or some custom made piece?
    I continue to look for commercial type ballistic lab equipment, but any I have ever found has been way to high priced for use as a hobby for me.

Just Curious,
MK

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Luvz2Shoot View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luvz2Shoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 7:44pm
While on the subject of ammo, but not to change it from Omie looking for a box, does anyone have a picture of the original SuperVel round?  I purchased a 44 and the guy threw in some extra items.  One of the items was a yellow SuperVel box with some ammo in it.  The brass is stamped CDM but the bullets are not a CDM bullet.  I've been searching for a pic of the original SuperVel stuff but keep coming up empty.  Thanks.
Omie, I hope you find your box for your collection.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote curmudgeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 11:33pm
The age of ammo would have more to do with how it was stored rather than when made. All 357,41,44 Mag ammo loaded by me at Super Vel or under the LEJ label used original CDM brass (new) not reloaded. My pressure equipment was custom made following the Universal (Mondern. Bond Reciever). The bbls were SAAMI nominal bbls using SAAMI specs for vent hole and piston specs, using SAAMI crushers from SAAMI...Rem,Win,Fed, all use the Modern Bond reciever. Most are WW2 vintage. Bruce Hodgdon bought 5 MB recievers after the Korean war. He kept one for the Hodgdon factory and gave one to Joyce Hornday. If you recall, Hornday started their ammo line doing reloads of Gov't brass. There was some difficulty with some many thousands of rounds of Hornady ammo and they had a recall. This had all been loaded and sold w/o ever been pressure tested. The MB recievers are not an off the shelf item. Usually built and sold to GoCo plants during war time. Afterwards most of this equipment is sold at auction. This is how Federal cartridge got started after WW2.   SV attempted to buy some GoCo equipment after the Korean war but were unsuccseful. We built cartridge tumbling equip following the pattern after some of these tumblers upon inspection. I asked Bruce if he had any MB recievers left of the five he bought, he said no and told me of the Hornady sale. We did not know of or see the sale which these MB reievers were sold. The strain guage and or piezo electric standards came about at a later date. At SV we built a strain guage system based on the doctoral thesis of Dr. Brownell at the U of Michigan done in conjunction with Detroit Testing labs. We utilized this system initially for pressure testing. As there was no testing standard at SAAMI for this equipment we switched to the Copper Crusher. Later SAAMI wrote standards for both strain guage at piezo electric. The purpose of Dr. Brownell's work was to establish a modern test for modern fire arms. As the CC style dates back to the civil war as did much of the ammo of the day( late 50's early 60's..FWIW dept. During the start of the Vietnam war much ammo was still loaded by the plate system, rather than modern loaders like the Manurin equipment. FWIW dept.
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